This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

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VF1SkullAngel
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This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by VF1SkullAngel »

I love my newish fiero and it runs great, the motor is very strong and dependable however the one thing that sucks about this car is the shitty 3 speed it has. It simply kills itself! :-o Driving on California highways like the 5 is a damn risk cause you can't top out or maintain speeds with traffic unless you wanna cruise at 3300 all the way to your destination then gas mileage goes to shit.

Anyone know how much of a pain in the ass it is to swap out the 3 speed for a 5 speed out of a later model 88 GT? Or could I find a better auto trans out of something else?

Other notes I do plan on doing the 3800 swap in the future in about a year or two from now once I actually get a garage to store the car in I don't know if I'm going S/C or Turbo yet. But the tranny issue needs to be addressed now however
Sometimes you only need six cylinders to get the job done.
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Aaron
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by Aaron »

I'll sell you a turbocharged/intercooled 3.4 DOHC that comes with a 5-speed Getrag! I'll even include the 88GT wrapped around it if you want it. Cheaper, easier, and faster than a 3800SC with a 5-speed.

On a side note, I did this swap, but had the complete donor car sitting right next to me. It's not incredibly difficult at all, so long as you have all of the donor parts (That's the hard part). You don't realize how different and complex the two different systems are until you have to swap them. Everything from the box, shifter cables with their seals, nuts and bolts, pedal assembly, clutch master and slave, the lines, hell IIRC you even need the radiator from the 5-speed. And that's not including all of the computer/wiring differences, I'm sure you need a chip, reverse lights wired, speed sensor, etc. I don't know this part for sure, as I had done the engine swap with a PCM prepared for a 5-speed.
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
CincinnatiFiero
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by CincinnatiFiero »

You can put in a 440T4 aka the 4T60 non electronic, it is a 4speed automatic. You have to change the passenger side axle I believe, but that's a swap that is done occasionally.
A 4-speed version of the 125 was created for the 1985–1986 GM C platform (FWD)/GM H platform (FWD) cars, the Turbo-Hydramatic 440-T4. Many parts were identical to the 125, though it was generally stronger and included an overdrive fourth gear. This transmission was first used in GM's 1985 Buick Park Avenue, Oldsmobile 98, and Cadillac Deville. In 1986, after switching to FWD, the Buick LeSabre, Oldsmobile Delta 88, and later, the Pontiac Bonneville also used this transmission. A special strengthened F-7 version was also used for the 1987–1992 Cadillac Allanté.

One unique feature of this transmission is its use of both a modulator valve and a throttle valve (TV) cable. Most transmissions either use one or the other to control shift points and shift smoothness. On the Turbo 440-T4, the TV cable exclusively controls the shift points, while the modulator valve controls the shift feel. This feature makes it very easy for a home, "shadetree" mechanic to adjust the transmission shift points with minimum effect on the shift feel.
I've sold a few for around $200, you can get them at junkyards for $79.99.
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Shaun41178(2)
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

If you are going to do a swap in a year or two I say you keep the trans in it for now. I had an auto and even though the rpms were higher when cruising bs a 5 spd, it wasn't that bad if I am not mistaken I had a 3.08 fd and at 60 mph it was at 2600 if I remember right. If you are doing 3300 rpm Nd you have the same fd then you have to be well over 70 mph

I say you suck it up and deal with it until you do your swap. I think it will just be way too much work not to mention cost to put a 5 spd in that's a lot of gas if you think about it that way
FieroPhrek working on that ls4 swap for 18 years and counting now. 18 years!!!!! LOL

530 whp is greater than 312
The Dark Side of Will
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

The 5 speed swap is extensive, yet doable.

You don't need to change the radiator, as the auto trans V6 radiator will adequately cool the V6. The difference is that the auto trans radiator has a transmission cooler in it.

The clutch hydraulic line follows the same channel in the floor pan as the auto trans cooler lines, so that's an easy installation.

The pedal box is a giant PITA to change. The whole box must be removed... there isn't enough room under the dash to remove the short pivot bar and install the long one.

The center console skeleton is a pain to remove, as removing it requires disassembling the entire console and center stack... and it's fragile.

The steering columns are different between the auto and the stick... It's not strictly required that you change the column, though.

You'll almost have to completely drop the cradle in order to swap the transmission out. The trans mount brackets and shift linkage are available new from Rodney Dickman (his design, *NOT* NOS parts).

Flywheel, clutch, axles... It's a big job and requires quite a few parts all over the car. It's not nearly as easy as it is in an E30.
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Shaun41178(2) wrote:If you are doing 3300 rpm Nd you have the same fd then you have to be well over 70 mph
Ever driven on "the 5"?
In the places that aren't a parking lot, doing 70 will get you run over...
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Shaun41178(2)
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Well if he is doing it because he wants to save on gas, how much is he going to spend to do the manual trans swap, just to get a couple more mpg?

-trans
-trans mounts
-clutch
-flywheel
-axles
-cables
-shifter
-clutch pedal
-slave cylinder
-master cylinder
-hydraulic line

Tip of the iceberg. Gotta count the downtime and all the work involved as well. Just in those parts alone, think of the cost of all those parts. Now you have to guess how long it would take to use up that much gasoline just by keeping the auto in it untill he swaps to a 3800. It would take forever to recoup the cost of the trans swap in gas savings at a couple bucks per fill up.

Thats the way I am looking at it.
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Definitely not worth it for the economics. It might be worthwhile for the fun factor, though. I've done the swap twice... I don't look at automatic trans anything anymore; if a stick is available, to me it's worth it to buy up front.

A 4 speed auto swap is a lot less work, a lot fewer parts and might be worthwhile.
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Series8217
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by Series8217 »

Don't bother swapping to a manual if you're planning to do a 3800SC swap in the future. You can't pass smog with a manual 3800SC in California, since that engine only ever came with an auto.

A manual transmission swap is straightforward if you have a complete manual Fiero donor car. You don't need to be getting the transmission out of the same car, but you need a lot of odds and ends like the shifter, pedal assembly, switches, master cylinder, clutch line, shifter surround, steering column, etc.

Some of the parts are available in the aftermarket: Rodney Dickman has the shift cables, transmission brackets, and slave cylinder. I think Fierostore has a clutch line.

It's worth reiterating that you could sell your car and buy mine.
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VF1SkullAngel
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by VF1SkullAngel »

Id buy your Fiero but I don't know how much your asking and I'm moving again cause my roommate is preggo(Not mine baby, not my problem) I also bought the car with a small loan with intent of building up SOME credit. I know it sounds fucking gay, the loan should be paid up in less than a year so we will see what happens. I'm also looking at buying a beater as a point A to point B car with a backseat.
Sometimes you only need six cylinders to get the job done.
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VF1SkullAngel
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by VF1SkullAngel »

CincinnatiFiero wrote:You can put in a 440T4 aka the 4T60 non electronic, it is a 4speed automatic. You have to change the passenger side axle I believe, but that's a swap that is done occasionally.
A 4-speed version of the 125 was created for the 1985–1986 GM C platform (FWD)/GM H platform (FWD) cars, the Turbo-Hydramatic 440-T4. Many parts were identical to the 125, though it was generally stronger and included an overdrive fourth gear. This transmission was first used in GM's 1985 Buick Park Avenue, Oldsmobile 98, and Cadillac Deville. In 1986, after switching to FWD, the Buick LeSabre, Oldsmobile Delta 88, and later, the Pontiac Bonneville also used this transmission. A special strengthened F-7 version was also used for the 1987–1992 Cadillac Allanté.

One unique feature of this transmission is its use of both a modulator valve and a throttle valve (TV) cable. Most transmissions either use one or the other to control shift points and shift smoothness. On the Turbo 440-T4, the TV cable exclusively controls the shift points, while the modulator valve controls the shift feel. This feature makes it very easy for a home, "shadetree" mechanic to adjust the transmission shift points with minimum effect on the shift feel.
I've sold a few for around $200, you can get them at junkyards for $79.99.
I maybe in the market for one of these! $79 bucks ain't shit! plus I can install it myself at Auto Skills center at Camp Pendleton for pennies on the dollar. Ill be watching lots of Transmission install vids for a while. lol
Sometimes you only need six cylinders to get the job done.
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Re: This 3 speed needs to go!!!!

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Do research and figure out what model/year trans you want, then check www.car-parts.com for units available at junk yards near you.
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