Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

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ericjon262
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by ericjon262 »

Aaron wrote:I think it was only 3. I'm running the 94-95 SFI OBD1.5, I forgot the numbers on it though. Darth tuned a chip to enable the manual trans and 42.5# injectors, and I've got a Split Second FTC1 piggyback controlling fueling under boost.
I thought 1.5 was flash programmed? either way, if you're running 1.5, I would consider swapping to 1 or 2, there's just so much more support.
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Aaron
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by Aaron »

1.5 is just like 1 from a tuning perspective, it's done via chips. The piggy back simply modifies the MAF signal to the ECU. Simple but it works pretty well.

I'd love to go to OBD2, but at the time of the build no one had figured out how, or if, one could get a OBD2 3.4 to cooperate with boost, a manual trans, and 7,000 plus rpm. And I hesitate to do it now because this is not my forever powertrain, I'd eventually like to go to a new setup.

I'm interested in seeing your car actually run shaun. But I gave up on that 6 years ago. Sorry, I have absolutely no motivation to post pics for you.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

I would also like to see vids of your setup running awrong

Now lets see pics of that tune you loaded.
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ericjon262
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by ericjon262 »

Aaron wrote:1.5 is just like 1 from a tuning perspective, it's done via chips. The piggy back simply modifies the MAF signal to the ECU. Simple but it works pretty well.

I'd love to go to OBD2, but at the time of the build no one had figured out how, or if, one could get a OBD2 3.4 to cooperate with boost, a manual trans, and 7,000 plus rpm. And I hesitate to do it now because this is not my forever powertrain, I'd eventually like to go to a new setup.

I'm interested in seeing your car actually run shaun. But I gave up on that 6 years ago. Sorry, I have absolutely no motivation to post pics for you.
ok, F-body V8 1.5 systems are flash based, I was under the impression that the V6 systems were the same.
Shaun41178(2) wrote:I would also like to see vids of your setup running awrong

Now lets see pics of that tune you loaded.
you two bicker like a fucking married couple.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by Aaron »

Got my clutch line fixed and the new mirror glass put on, and took the car for a 60 or so mile drive. Turns out the fuel gauge is working properly, the needle just isn't even close to being lines up. I'll reset it one of these days.

The car runs good at low throttle levels, around town it runs great. Full throttle is also good, I did a couple long pulls in 4th and it sits right around 11:1. Still rich, but it at least accelerates hard, and my tunes are helping. I'll put another on tomorrow.

However the car sucks on the highway. I cannot hold 80 to save my life. If the throttle goes too heavy, and you get closer to ambient pressure than about 2 in-mg, the A/F pegs the gauge rich. Car stumbles, smells like crap, and won't move. Happens in 4th or 5th gear, and seems to only happen at higher speeds. It shouldn't be the piggyback, but who knows. Tomorrow I'm going to disconnect the piggyback, and go for a drive. Now I can't go past about 2psi boost, but I'll get it on the highway and see if it pegs the gauge with throttle. This will tell me if it's the factory ECU or piggyback. I'm thinking it'll be the factory ECU, in which case I'll have to send chips off to Darth again, see if he can't figure it out.

OBD2 is looking really appealing about now, because the above scenario is just SOOO frustrating.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by ericjon262 »

I'm gonna cross post this here, you've probably already seen it, but here are my thoughts on obd2 LQ1
ericjon262 wrote:here are my thoughts:

1.use the wiring diagram for a 3400, it uses the same sensor arrangements as the LQ1. ( http://www.gmtuners.com/files/Fiero_340 ... wiring.pdf )

2.Install a clutch switch, and wire it into pin 18 on the clear connector. ground the other side of the switch. the switch will need to be normally closed (grounded), and open(not grounded) when the clutch is pressed. Ryan doesn't list this connection in his diagram, because a 3100/3400 never came stock with a manual transmission (nor did your 97 LQ1). this arrangement is derived from 1998~ish F-bodies running the 3800 and the same PCM, the only application I am aware of to use that PCM and a manual.

3. using tiny tuner ( http://theblattners.com/Projects/TinyTuner/default.html )

Transmission>gear ratio>transmission type> set to 0

4. Profit.

Edit:

Step 2 says the switch idea came from a 3800 application, which may confuse you, but before you assume that I'm batshit crazy the 3800 programming and 3100/3400 programming are VERY similar. some bin files even have a "crank sensor resolution" flag that can be set to the 3100/3400 style, the 3.5 Short* style, and the 3800 style. I have been thinking for quite a while that the bin files are much more interchangeable than previously thought. also, I think the switch would only be required if you want to keep cruise control, others have had good experiences without it just by changing the trans type setting.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by Aaron »

Interesting, I'd love to try it but can't be the guinea pig, I simply don't know enough to.

I did a lot of testing on my drive home today. To my shock, the Phantom rich condition appears to be speed based. It happens almost religiously between 110 and 120 kph. It happens at any throttle position, and in any gear. So if it is speed based, that rules out the piggyback. It also means that it shouldn't occur with the VSS disconnected, as that's the only way for the ECU to know vehicle speed. I'm going to disconnect the VSS and see if it changes anything.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

check your map voltage and your vaccum at that speed. Then try to mimic the vacuum at a different speed and see if it returns. Also verify TPS voltage at that mph and see if perhaps there is a dead spot or a false reading. obd 1.5 might be different but as far as I know, fuel trim is based on tps and load and coolant temp.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Aaron wrote:Interesting, I'd love to try it but can't be the guinea pig, I simply don't know enough to.

I did a lot of testing on my drive home today. To my shock, the Phantom rich condition appears to be speed based. It happens almost religiously between 110 and 120 kph. It happens at any throttle position, and in any gear. So if it is speed based, that rules out the piggyback. It also means that it shouldn't occur with the VSS disconnected, as that's the only way for the ECU to know vehicle speed. I'm going to disconnect the VSS and see if it changes anything.
That's wild. Does the VSS wire even go to the piggy-back?

You have a MAF, right? What is your airflow at that speed in each gear? It should be pretty close. I wonder if you're seeing a reversion issue with your intake plumbing resulting in multi-counting some metered air.

I don't give a shit if you "don't know enough" to do proper logging.
You NEED to have access to operating data in the ECM. The software is out there, the DIY info is out there and there are probably tutorials on YouTube to get it done. Get it done.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by ericjon262 »

Aaron wrote:Interesting, I'd love to try it but can't be the guinea pig, I simply don't know enough to.

I'm going to be running my LX9 3500 like this. I'll be sure to post up how things go.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by Aaron »

Shaun41178(2) wrote:check your map voltage and your vaccum at that speed. Then try to mimic the vacuum at a different speed and see if it returns. Also verify TPS voltage at that mph and see if perhaps there is a dead spot or a false reading. obd 1.5 might be different but as far as I know, fuel trim is based on tps and load and coolant temp.
I was checking vacuum by eye on the gauge, and seems to be happening right at 0, or just shy of it. I did try to mimic that at lower speeds in 5th gear, and it ran perfect, held a 14.7 afr. But come 110 kph at the same vacuum, and it dives to 10. I hadn't thought about the TPS, that'll be worth checking.
The Dark Side of Will wrote: That's wild. Does the VSS wire even go to the piggy-back?

You have a MAF, right? What is your airflow at that speed in each gear? It should be pretty close. I wonder if you're seeing a reversion issue with your intake plumbing resulting in multi-counting some metered air.

I don't give a shit if you "don't know enough" to do proper logging.
You NEED to have access to operating data in the ECM. The software is out there, the DIY info is out there and there are probably tutorials on YouTube to get it done. Get it done.
No the piggyback does not get a VSS signal.

Yes I have MAF, but no way of knowing or logging what the values are yet. Seems odd that I'd only encounter that at these specific conditions. I tried hard to replicate it in second gear, even riding the brakes to simulate the 5th gear load.

You're right, I do need to log the factory ECU.
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Re: Series inspired me, taking my turbo 3.4 to the track

Post by draven »

any progress?
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