DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

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ericjon262
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DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

Post by ericjon262 »

so, either my DHP is toast, or my brand new keyspan took a shit... this thing has been frustrating the crap out of me, to the point that I'm starting to consider options.

option one, keep messing with it until it works reliably.

option two, buy a hptuner, that doesn't use an adapter, and still has customer support.

option three, throw all the obd2 bullshit away, and go obd1.

option 3 seems like it would be the most cost friendly, I already have a 9396 ECM, and the pigtails, and an autoprom is less than half of the HPtuner pro suite, and probably has better customer support. downside, speed density, while being more accurate, is also more of a PITA to tune than mass airflow, but that's not a huge deal, as I was going to pay someone else to do it anyways...

option 2 is the most plug and play, but costs the most for sure, between the system and the credits, it's pricey, but I can use it to tune my truck too.



Thoughts?
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
ericjon262
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Re: DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

Post by ericjon262 »

ericjon262 wrote:so, either my DHP is toast, or my brand new keyspan took a shit... this thing has been frustrating the crap out of me, to the point that I'm starting to consider options.

option one, keep messing with it until it works reliably.

option two, buy a hptuner, that doesn't use an adapter, and still has customer support.

option three, throw all the obd2 bullshit away, and go obd1.

option 3 seems like it would be the most cost friendly, I already have a 9396 ECM, and the pigtails, and an autoprom is less than half of the HPtuner pro suite, and probably has better customer support. downside, speed density, while being more accurate, is also more of a PITA to tune than mass airflow, but that's not a huge deal, as I was going to pay someone else to do it anyways...

option 2 is the most plug and play, but costs the most for sure, between the system and the credits, it's pricey, but I can use it to tune my truck too.



Thoughts?

.... so, turns out my laptop somehow disabled the keyspan serial adapter, I don't know how or why. works now though.
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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Emc209i
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Re: DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

Post by Emc209i »

Going to OBD1 is always the wrong answer.
fieroguru
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Re: DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

Post by fieroguru »

The processing speed of the OBD1 ecms (parameter logging capability and speed it can detect knock and change timing/fueling) is something of an order of magnitude slower (depends on which OBD2 ecms - the E series ecms are very, very fast even when compared to other OBD2 ecms).

The processing speed allows more resolution in timing, fueling, and idle control tables so you can get the tune closer and have better drivabilty especially on non-stock engines.

Dealing with % of 128 vs. just % is also a pain.

Then the logging the data and being able to actually do something worthwhile with it. When I tuned my 7730 SBC swap back 12ish years ago, I would log the data, dump it into an excel file (that I had to build) with several tabs that would combine the data, then pivot table it, compare it, then the last sheet kicked out the suggested changes. Even with a Moates Ostrich emulator so I could flash the change vs. burning a chip, it was still a lot more involved. Now HP Tuners and newer packages do this all for you within the scanning application. So you can scan, review, copy/paste, and flash the changes in a few minutes and all within the car.

If anything, you should be looking to upgrade to an E series ecm...
ericjon262
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Re: DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

Post by ericjon262 »

I would not say that obd1 is always the wrong answer. obd1 has a few key benefits, it's direct swap, no new trigger wheels or pedal sensors required, hardware and software is readily available for way less than obd2 stuff, and the code has been fully disassembled and put back together and improved quite alot.

the obd2 V6 PCM I currently use, has fuel and spark tables that only go to 6800 rpm. there are versions of $A1 (obd1 60v6 code) that are tuneable to 12,750 rpm. do I need almost 13000 rpm? no, but I would like the ability to tune over 6800 rpm, the engine should be capable of 7500 rpm. the same version of $A1 is being worked on to implement VVT and possibly flexfuel as well.

The E series ecm's offer quite a bit, but will require a new crank trigger wheel, possibly a new cam wheel, a throttle pedal, dbw throttle, and hptuners or efi live to tune it, taking the costs through the roof, as well as lots of R+D. if my engine already used a 58x trigger, the swap would be way easier, but my engine (stock) used a 56x trigger(now I have an external 7x trigger), which is only compatible with the stock ecm, that isn't supported by any tuning software. as far as I am aware, even the newer LZ4/LZ9 3500/3500 isn't supported very well at all by HP tuners and EFI live.

putting it bluntly, obd1 would get me what I need without re-inventing the wheel like it will take with obd2 unless someone starts really hacking the obd2 V6 code.
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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Re: DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

56x?

If you have a simple engine, do your own tuning and don't need extensive logging, OBDI can work fine. Running an engine is actually a fairly simple task, as MegaSquirt demonstrates. Most of the code in more modern ECM's is diagnostics, emissions management, catalyst protection, networking with other modules in the car.

Variable cam phasing and direct injection have increased the computational requirements for running an engine significantly.
ericjon262
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Re: DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

Post by ericjon262 »

The Dark Side of Will wrote:56x?

If you have a simple engine, do your own tuning and don't need extensive logging, OBDI can work fine. Running an engine is actually a fairly simple task, as MegaSquirt demonstrates. Most of the code in more modern ECM's is diagnostics, emissions management, catalyst protection, networking with other modules in the car.

Variable cam phasing and direct injection have increased the computational requirements for running an engine significantly.

yeah, the LX9 uses a odd crank wheel, different from anything else...
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
ericjon262
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Re: DHP vs hptuners vs obd1

Post by ericjon262 »

back from the dead... thinking about megaquirt... I'm looking at possibly picking up an MS3x

anyone have any experience with it?
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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