Saab '03-'04 6 speed ratios & RPO

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The Dark Side of Will
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Saab '03-'04 6 speed ratios & RPO

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Anybody know?
GM powertrain doesn't list them.
I know I found them somewhere back in the day.

I *think* that they were the same as the MT2 ratios, but with a 3.90ish final instead of 3.55, but I'd like to see them in print somewhere.
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Post by Atilla the Fun »

I have this written down somewhere. May take me a week of looking to find it. I know the '09 got a deeper first geat, exactly what it didn't need, along with a deeper final drive.
May I ask why it matters? I'm curious.
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I want to add them to my spreadsheet.

I'm also curious about the 3.90 final and the various bellhousing patterns that the transmission has had.

Do the Ecotecs and high feature V6's have the same bellhousing pattern?

Only the AWD cars got the deeper 1st for '09, AFAIK.

Ecotec pattern: http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Racer-Te ... attern.pdf
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Post by befarrer »

I have heard the ecotech and a certain saab that uses their version of the G6 6-speed are the same bellhousing. But not confirmed yet.
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Post by Series8217 »

The Dark Side of Will wrote:I want to add them to my spreadsheet.

I'm also curious about the 3.90 final and the various bellhousing patterns that the transmission has had.

Do the Ecotecs and high feature V6's have the same bellhousing pattern?
I think it was confirmed on Old Europe that they do NOT.
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

befarrer wrote:I have heard the ecotech and a certain saab that uses their version of the G6 6-speed are the same bellhousing. But not confirmed yet.
The Saab IS using the Ecotec... so, yeah, the patterns are the same. :thumbleft:

It would be sweet if GM pulled their head out of their asses and used the Turbo DI Ecotec from the Cobalt SS in the Saab with the Saab 6 speed.
Series8217 wrote: I think it was confirmed on Old Europe that they do NOT.
I've heard people say that, and I've looked at pictures of the two, but has anyone ever found or linked a dimensioned drawing of the new V6 bellhousing?
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Post by Atilla the Fun »

looked, but still haven't found, sorry.
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Post by Series8217 »

Finally found the ratios on an old press release from 2003 (so these would be for the 2004 model):
http://www.autoweb.com.au/c...ves/newsarticle.html
http://www.autoweb.com.au/c...ble/newsarticle.html

1st 3.7692
2nd 2.0400
3rd 1.3208
4th 0.9538
5th 0.7547
6th 0.6230
Reverse: 3.5385
Final: 3.9091

So it's just an F40 of some sort..
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Awesome! Thanks.

Was that too early in the Saab/GM thing for them to use a GM RPO?
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Post by Series8217 »

Could be.
Are these the same ratios as the earlier F40 transmissions before the ratio change for 3-6 (or whatever it is they did)?
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Yes, according to the info I snagged from GM Powertrain. The only thing that's different is the final drive.

Should the bellhosuing pattern from that engine be the same as on the resy of the Ecotecs?
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Post by Atilla the Fun »

I sure didn't have them that accurate. I'm still waiting to find out the exact ratio of the "3.55:1" final.
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

It's pretty irrelevant past the 2nd decimal place. An error of .001 on a ratio of 1:1 is obviously 0.1%. The error is even smaller at numerically larger ratios.

3.55 is a fairly common rear ratio in other applications, go look up the tooth counts on www.summitracing.com and figure that's the exact ratio.

Edit: looks like 3.55 in a Ford 9" is 39/11.
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Post by Atilla the Fun »

Based on the final drive of the getrag 282, the F40 I have MUST be either 71:20 or 78:22. The former gets you 3.550000:1, and the latter gets you the 3.5454545:1.
It may seem insignificant, but for my calculations, I use a Texas Instruments calculator that shows 12 digits, not the standard 8. It may be connected to my obsessive/compulsive disorder, but I need precision. That 3.7692:1 first gear goes on to really be 3.76923076923076923:1
If I'm being a problem, I apologize.
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Atilla the Fun wrote: If I'm apologizing too much, I apologize
:thumbleft:

I'm just saying that you can get all the precision you'll need to anything short of Formula 1 with two decimal places on your gear ratios. You're not being a bother. Everybody's got their quirks. I've got plenty.
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Post by Atilla the Fun »

when the source gives at least 3 decimal places, I can determine the next 8 without needing tooth counts.
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Re: Saab '03-'04 6 speed ratios & RPO

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Saab F40 Ratios RPO bump

Yay, the search can find it now

I was looking for this info initially to figure out how hard it would be to put together a 3.6 DI + F40 with 3.91 gears.
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Re: Saab '03-'04 6 speed ratios & RPO

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Bump

Code: Select all

        F40 MT2
        Final           3.91
        Shifted Split   Overall
First   3.7692          14.73
Second  2.04    0.54    7.97
Third   1.3208  0.65    5.16
Fourth  0.9538  0.72    3.73
Fifth   0.7547  0.79    2.95
Sixth   0.623   0.83    2.44
			
Spread  6.05

        F40 MU9
        Final           3.55
        Shifted Split   Overall
First   3.7692          13.38
Second  2.04    0.54    7.24
Third   1.37    0.67    4.86
Fourth  1.05    0.77    3.73
Fifth   0.85    0.81    3.02
Sixth   0.71    0.84    2.52
			
Spread  5.31

        F40 Frankenstein		
        Final           3.91
        Shifted Split   Overall
First   2.5             9.77
Second  1.85    0.74    7.23
Third   1.37    0.74    5.36
Fourth  1.05    0.77    4.10
Fifth   0.85    0.81    3.32
Sixth   0.623   0.73    2.44
		
Spread  4.01
Since this thread was last updated GM Powertrain updated their website and the archival info is *GONE*. Fuckers.
Wikipedia has some familiar numbers for the 2007 ratios: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_F40
6.05 is quite a ratio spread.


So basically, I need to buy a 2004 MT2 for the 3.91 final and 6th gear, and a 2007 MU9 for the case and 3rd-5th gears. I can then have a custom input shaft and 1st/2nd output gears made.
Assemble with Quaife and have a transmission that will give me equal or better acceleration in gear to the best I could get from a 282, but have a taller highway gear than anything I could get from any of the 5 speeds available. This would be for the Northstar car.

The desire to do this is driven by my desire to get maximum performance out of the car, yet keep it a street car capable of long trips. I think that going to the 0.81 fifth with 3.94 final in the 282 would compromise the car as a street car too much, and outweigh the added performance at speed. The 0.62 sixth with 3.91 final gives and overall raito of 2.44, which is actually taller than the MG2 282's 2.60 (0.72 * 3.61)... So I'd get closer, more aggressive gearing across the board with a taller top gear for highway use... win/win.

For the 3.6 DI swap into my Formula, I'll just use the '09 Saab transmission as delivered... I think it has MU9 gears.
However, the MT2 sixth with 3.55 final would give an overall of 2.21... The LLT should easily be able to pull that gear in a car as light as a Fiero.
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Re: Saab '03-'04 6 speed ratios & RPO

Post by Nashco »

I have also noticed the downward spiral at gmpowertrain.com. Start here and save everything you think you'll need!!!

http://archives.media.gm.com/us/gm/en/n ... index.html

I'm intending to do this for the engine/trans info, just haven't got around to it. Maybe we can divide and conquer? You download all of 2009, 2007, 2005, I'll get 2008, 2006, etc. I guess we'll refer to 2010 as the dark year, because I'm pretty sure gmpowertrain.com saw zero updates from July '09 until just a few months ago.

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Re: Saab '03-'04 6 speed ratios & RPO

Post by teamlseep13 »

Will, were you thinking of using a OEM ECM for this swap? The Bosch ECM's are quite finicky as far as getting into the code to turn off theft deterrent systems but I believe they switched to a Delphi sourced ECM in '10 or "11.
Motec is working on a controller box for the high voltage requirements of the DI injectors I think but no one else aftermarket wise has yet to dip their toes.

I can't remember off the top of my head if the HF V6 and the ECOtec are the same bellhousing pattern but I believe they are different. Ill try to check it out at work sometime soon.
1988 Pontiac Fiero

Ecotec swap taking much too long...
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