Tilton Clutch

Real tech discussion on design, fabrication, testing, development of custom or adapted parts for Pontiac Fieros. Not questions about the power a CAI will give.

Moderators: The Dark Side of Will, Series8217

The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15610
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

The gent didn't change the screws... Tilton did. Since I did my investigation a few years back, Tilton has swapped from conventional hex head screws holding the diaphragm spring to the PP cover to flat heads. The old design had the screws inserted from the inside with nuts on the outside. I was planning to flip them to put the screw heads on the outside to reduce the overall stack height. Tilton beat me to it. They swapped the conventional screws for flat heads, which completely eliminates that clearance difficulty. They also used pin-in-head pentalobe screws... they really don't want the users taking those screws out.

The F23 bellhousing is also deeper than the 282 bellhousing, which gives him more room to stack the button on top of the flexplate.
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15610
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I emailed the Tilton tech address today. They sent me the updated installation drawing. Unfortunately I need to go tweak the settings to allow me to attach .pdf's.

The overall height is 0.300 less on the units with flat head screws. Awesome!
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15610
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Re:

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

The Dark Side of Will wrote: The max clearance inside the transmission from the crank flange to the part of the case covering the output shaft is ~2.425".
With this available space, the overall height of 1.806 with flat head screws and 0.044 clearance to the output shaft bearing boss, I can set up a step style flywheel with a thickness of 0.575 at the pressure plate bolt bosses and 0.675 under the friction face.

I'm thinking that I'll go with Tilton's organic + cerametallic disk combo. I can put the organic disk against the flywheel. If I leave a little more weight in the flywheel, I can dramatically increase its heat capacity and ability to slip without overheating the organic disk, while at the same time not increasing MOI of the assembly much because the retained material will be at a small radius.

I'll *probably* make it 0.600 at the friction surface so that I can have a cookie of 5/8" steel lasered out to carve on. That will leave enough extra to use the Blanchard to put the final surfaces on it.
User avatar
Series8217
1988 Fiero Track Car
Posts: 5971
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:47 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by Series8217 »

That's good news.

I wonder they'll rework an older plate to install the new flat heads. Or did you determine it wasn't needed if using an F23?
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15610
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I haven't looked at the F23 application.
Just put a straight edge across the bellhousing and measure depth to the output shaft inner bearing boss. I thought I'd seen that number for an F23 somewhere.

The poster on Old Europe thinks the F23 has a deeper bellhousing than the 282. Let's put some numbers on it.
User avatar
Shaun41178(2)
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:12 pm
Location: Ben Phelps is an alleged scammer

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

This is for your 282 Getrag right?

I am thinking twin disk now. I don't think my spec 5 is holding. Apparently wcf offers a twin but I am guessing it has a steel flywheel so the whole set up is gonna be much heavier than what I have now
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15610
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

MOAR TORK!

WCF doesn't know about Occam's razor. Steven can probably set us straight, but I'm not sure their twin disk app works with anything but the NSX transmission.

ETA: Yes, my app is the 282. I guess what you're really asking is: Can I make two flywheels and drill one for the V6?
User avatar
Shaun41178(2)
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:12 pm
Location: Ben Phelps is an alleged scammer

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Well Steven already stated in a thread I started that a wcf does offer a twin for the Getrag.

It seems the flywheel is the holdup for most people right? As all that tilton stuff is still off the shelf available still?

One drilled for a v6 would be nice.

I was looking at doing the fl2k17 roll event but if my clutch won't hold its pointless. I have the spec stage 5 and they say it holds 614lb ft
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15610
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Series8217 wrote:That's good news.

I wonder they'll rework an older plate to install the new flat heads. Or did you determine it wasn't needed if using an F23?
The Dark Side of Will wrote:I haven't looked at the F23 application.
Just put a straight edge across the bellhousing and measure depth to the output shaft inner bearing boss. I thought I'd seen that number for an F23 somewhere.

The poster on Old Europe thinks the F23 has a deeper bellhousing than the 282. Let's put some numbers on it.
To elaborate on this a little bit:
With the conventional screws, there's *just barely* enough room to fit the clutch and button. That means that the thickness at the step was .325 or so for threading in a 5/16" bolt. There might not have been enough thickness at the edge to weld on a hollowed out flex plate. I didn't really look at a pot type flywheel, but in thinking about it now, it's obvious that would have helped the edge situation, as the expense of a *slight* increase in MoI.

With the step at 0.325, the friction surface thickness would thus have been around 0.425. That's quite thin when you consider that it has to be counterbored for the flywheel bolt heads. It would probably work fine on a V6 with 10 or 12mm thin head flywheel bolts. The Northstar uses 8mm flexplate/flywheel bolts. ARP doesn't have any thin head bolts for that application. I just wasn't comfortable with how thin the material under the heads was going to be once I counterbored deep enough for conventional heads.

If the F23 bellhousing is even 1/8" deeper than the 282 bellhousing's 2.425", then all those concerns evaporate, especially if you're using thin head flywheel bolts.
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15610
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Shaun41178(2) wrote:Well Steven already stated in a thread I started that a wcf does offer a twin for the Getrag.

It seems the flywheel is the holdup for most people right? As all that tilton stuff is still off the shelf available still?

One drilled for a v6 would be nice.

I was looking at doing the fl2k17 roll event but if my clutch won't hold its pointless. I have the spec stage 5 and they say it holds 614lb ft
As flaky as SPEC products have been in the past, I wouldn't trust the Stage 5 rating.

QuarterMaster at one point made a flywheel for their clutch and the V6 in the Muncie transaxle, but I believe it also fits the 282. Alltrbo has a complete assembly, but not installed. Hit him up and make him an offer.

Tilton never made anything for the V6/60 or FWD bellhousings.
User avatar
Shaun41178(2)
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:12 pm
Location: Ben Phelps is an alleged scammer

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Sent you a pm will about allturbo contact info

I am assuming you dont have the pics still you posted on page 1 or 2 of this thread of the allturbo setup?
User avatar
Shaun41178(2)
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:12 pm
Location: Ben Phelps is an alleged scammer

Re: Tilton Clutch

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Back up
Post Reply