1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:01 pm

Finally got around to snagging a Jeep exhaust pipe to test fit... it looks like it could work. The fit is snug to the diff U-joint, and quite tight to the new diff snout bracket I'm building, but looks like it will work.

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Exhaust routing in a stock Eagle for comparison:

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Both setups sneak over to the right side of the powertrain by going under/behind the bellhousing.
Eagle and Jeep exhaust pipes next to each other for comparison:

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I'll put the bracket together like this, then gusset it heavily on the forward side and lightly on the rear side to stay clear of the exhaust pipe.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:12 am

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:12 am

ericjon262 wrote:I don't understand what's so special about the 3.54 gears, summit has gears for the dana 30 for $150 all day.
Found some info on the carrier specifics over on the Eagle's "Den"
FredCDobbs wrote: Image
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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by CincinnatiFiero » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:26 am

You need to track down one of the factory diesel Cherokees and we can merge some threads!

Looking good though, what's the body look like on this one? Once the drivetrain is sorted are you driving it or does it need more work.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:45 pm

Lol... I thought those were only mid 2000's applications.

The new target body is straight and rust free... but still ugly. I was musing about hitting it with Ugly Industrial Beige above the belt line to help keep temps down on sunny days and undercoat or bedliner below the belt line so that I wouldn't be bothered about driving through thickets and brambles.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:13 pm

The initial iteration of the bracket had the gussets welded on... but then got LOST (ie, accidentally thrown out by the cleaning lady :-x :-o )

So I had to build a new one. It's basically done except for blast/paint, but it will get a little more gusseting on the forward side.

Image

So now that that's in it's final stages, I'm starting to build a Bill of Materials for overhauling the diff.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:17 pm

The Eagle community and Eagle's Den (not sure why it isn't called Eagle's Eyrie) forum have done a really good job getting the parts books and service manuals scanned and online.

Section 9 of the parts book covers axles:
http://amceaglesden.com/guide/index.php ... ler_Shafts

Here's the Disco axle parts diagram:
Image

I made a .xls of the parts by group and part number, but here's a giant wall of text:

Code: Select all

Group		Part Number	Nomenclature					Amplification											Description				QTY
9.301-1		324 0159	4WD - With Part Time Axle (WPTA)		1981 FOUR 3.54 (13:46)
PO 9.303-1			Differential carrier bearing cap																			2
PO 9.303-1	813 3625	HOUSING, Front Axle (Incl. Tube)		81 30-50 (WPTA)		
		813 4323	HOUSING, Front Axle (Incl. Tube)		82/83 30-50 (WPTA-* 9-2)		
				HOUSING, Front Axle (Incl. Tube)		83/ 30-50 (WPTA-* 9-3)		
					
PO 9.368-1a	813 3610	SHAFT, Front Axle Drive				81/ (Inner-Right) 30-50 (WPTA) (Incl. Shaft, Cover, Seal, Bearing, Gear, Snap Ring, Screws)	Right output flange			1
9.303-2		813 3608	ATTACHING PARTS, Axle Tube Cover		81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Right bearing plate bolt		4
9.368-2		813 3607	BEARING, Front Axle				81/ (Right Hand) 30-50 (WPTA) (Outer Bearing)							Intermediate shaft bearing		1
		813 4759	BEARING, Front Axle				81/ (Right Hand) 30-50 (WPTA) (Inner Needle Bearing)						Intermediate shaft bearing	
9.368-1		813 3606	SHAFT, Intermediate Front Axle Drive		81/ 30-50 (WPTA) (Incl. Needle Bearings and Snap Ring)						Intermediate shaft			1
					
PO 9.368-1a	813 0752	SHAFT, Front Axle Drive				80/83 (Inner-Left) 30-50 (* 9-2)								Left output flange	
		813 4585	SHAFT, Front Axle Drive				83/ (Inner-Left) 30-50 (WPTA * 9-3)								Left output flange	
9.368-2		813 2821	BEARING, Front Axle				80/83 (Left Hand) 30-50 (* 9-2)									Left output flange bearing	
		813 4586	BEARING, Front Axle				83/ (Left Hand) 30-50 (WPTA * 9-3)								Left output flange bearing	
9.368-3		813 0762	SEAL, Front Axle Oil				80/83 (Left Hand) 30-50 (* 9-2)									Left axle seal	
		813 4587	SEAL, Front Axle Oil				83/ (Left Hand) 30-50 (WPTA * 9-3)								Left axle seal	
9.368-6		813 0763	RING, Inner Axle Shaft Snap			80/ 30-50											C-clip	2
					
9.410-1		813 3609	COLLAR, Axle Shift				81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Disconnect shift collar			1
9.410-2		813 3617	FORK, Axle Shift				81/ 30-50 (WPTA) (Incl. Snap Ring, "O" Ring, Insert Kit)					Disconnect shift fork			1
9.410-3		813 3618	SNAP RING, Shift Fork				81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Disconnect shift fork to actuator shaft snap ring	2
9.410-4		813 3708	INSERT KIT, Shift Fork (Incl. Inserts, Gasket, Screw, Lockwasher)	81/ 30-50 (WPTA)							Shift fork friction inserts (?)		1
9.414-1		813 3616	COVER, Axle Shifter Housing			81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Disconnect cover	
9.414-2		813 3624	ATTACHING PARTS, Shifter Cover	WASHER 		81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Disconnect cover washer	
9.414-2		813 3623	ATTACHING PARTS, Shifter Cover	BOLT 		81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Disconnect cover bolt	
9.414-3		813 3709	GASKET, Shifter Housing Cover			81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Disconnect cover gasket	
9.415-1		813 3621	MOTOR, Axle Shifter Vacuum			81/ 30-50 (WPTA) (Incl. "O" Ring, 2 Snap Rings, Insert Kit)					Disconnect actuator	
9.415-2		813 3620	"O" RING, Motor to Housing			81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Disconnect actuator body o-ring	
9.415-3		813 3619	SNAP RING, Vacuum Motor				81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Disconnect actuator body retaining snap ring	
9.415-4		324 0501	SEAL, Vacuum Motor Drain			81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Drain fitting dust cap	
					
9.341-1		812 6500	BEARING, Front Axle Differential Side		80/ 30-50 (Incl. 2 Cones and 2 Cups)								Differential carrier bearing set	2
9.345-1		813 0760	SHIM SET, Front Axle Differential Side Gear Bearing	80/ 30-50										Differential carrier bearing shim set	
9.318-1		G179890		SCREW, Bearing Cap				80/ 30-50											Differential carrier bearing cap bolt	4
PO 9.321-1	813 3720	CASE ASSEMBLY, Front Axle Differential		81 30-50 (WPTA)											Differential carrier	
		813 3720	CASE ASSEMBLY, Front Axle Differential		82/83 30-50 (WPTA 20:47 Ratio)									Differential carrier	
		813 4324	CASE ASSEMBLY, Front Axle Differential		82/83 30-50 (WPTA Except 20:47 Ratio)								Differential carrier	
9.336-2		636 360		PIN, Front Axle Differential Shaft		80/												Differential cross pin retaining bolt	
9.336-1		812 0833	SHAFT, Differential Pinion Mate			80/ 30-50											Differential cross pin	
9.333-1		812 0831	WASHER, Differential Pinion Gear Thrust		80/ 30-50											Spider gear thrust washer		2
9.327-1		813 3721	GEAR SET, Front Axle Differential Side And Pinion	81/ 30-50 (WPTA)									Side & spider gear set			2
9.329-1		813 3724	WASHER, Differential Side Gear Thrust		81/ 30-50 (WPTA)										Side gear thrust washer			2
PO 9.307-1	812 6498	COVER, Front Axle Housing (Incl. Plug)		80/30-50											Differential cover	
9.307-2		991 546		ATTACHING PARTS, Cover to Housing	SCREW 	80/ 30-50											Differential cover bolt			10
9.305-1		G103869		PLUG, Axle Housing Fill				80/ 30-50											Fill plug	
9.307-3		812 0360	GASKET, Front Axle Housing Cover		80/ 30-50											Differential cover gasket	
					
9.350-2		649 454		ATTACHING PARTS, Ring Gear to Differential Case	BOLT 80/ 30-50											Ring gear bolt				10
9.350-1		813 2831	GEAR SET, Front Axle (Incl. Pinion, Shims, Bearings, Seal, Slinger & Baffle)	80/ 30-50 3.54 (13:46) (Use 812 6518)				Ring & Pinion	
PO 9.355-3	812 6499	BEARING KIT, Front Axle Pinion Inner (Incl. 1 Cone and 1 Cup)											Pinion rear bearing cup & cone	
PO 9.355-4	812 4052	BEARING KIT, Front Axle Pinion Outer (Incl. 1 Cone and 1 Cup)	80/ 30-50									Pinion forward bearing cup & cone	
9.357-1		813 0759	SHIM SET, Front Axle Differential and Pinion	80/ 30-50											Differential carrier & pinion bearing shims	
9.364-4		934 937		BAFFLE, Pinion Bearing Oil			80/ 30-50											Pinion bearing oil baffle	
9.364-3		916 372		SLINGER, Pinion Bearing Oil			80/ (Inner) 30-50										Pinion bearing oil slinger	
		636 566		SLINGER, Pinion Bearing Oil			80/ (Outer) 30-50										Pinion seal oil slinger	
9.364-1		998 092		SEAL, Front Axle Pinion Bearing Oil		80/ 30-50											Pinion seal	
9.404-1		813 3525	YOKE, Front Axle to Propeller Shaft		81/83 30-50 (Four)										Input yoke	
		813 3241	YOKE, Front Axle to Propeller Shaft		80/ 30-50 (Six)											Input yoke	
9.350-5		636 570		WASHER, Pinion Nut				80/ 30-50											Washer (keyed?)	
9.350-4		801 367		NUT, Pinion					80/ 30-50											Pinion nut	
9.350-6		813 0758	SHIM SET, Front Axle Pinion			80/ 30-50											Pinion bearing shim set	
Hmm... tabs don't work the same way in a code window on this forum...

Next step is to knock the diff apart to get industry numbers and vital dimensions off the bearings and seals where applicable, as well as seeing what items relating to the disconnect mechanism are rusty or in need of replacement.
The Dana 30 "master rebuild kits" that I've seen didn't cover the bearings and such for the disconnect unit. The Dana 30 IFS is an oddball application compared to most Dana 30 uses, BUT the guts of the disconnect mechanism should be exactly the same, with the possible exception of the length of the intermediate shaft being different between the solid axle and IFS units.

So I can *probably* just order a pumpkin rebuild kit, disco rebuild kit and probably (maybe?) a R&P set and be done... but need to have the parts out to begin with to verify kit contents.

Also, when I filter the tables above for the 3.54 Disco configuration, I get this data:

Code: Select all

Disco 3.54

Year	BOM		R&P		Case Assy	Case	Left OP
1981	610134-5	700128-6	706819X		700130	620516
82-82.5	610153-5			706819X		700130	620516
83-84	610174-5			706830X		706831X	620842
"Case" in AMC (and Dana/Spicer?)-speak means the part the rest of us call the carrier.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:02 am

Is it bad that I'm already lusting after an almost-bolt-in Dana 60?
http://www.jeepolog.com/UserFiles/engli ... d_test.htm

While the vehicle is assembled in Israel, I bet the axle is built here in the US. If I could find the ChryCo part number for the assembly...

Edit: Uh-oh...

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Drivetrain-D ... OPP5155083

Image

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:08 am

A friend of my dad's uses a pair of pry-bars to get the carrier out when he overhauls Dana stuff... never had or used a case spreader.

Here's some actionable information:

Code: Select all

Description                        AMC PN  Part Mark    Industry        Dimensions         Carquest 
Left output flange seal            8134587 543290       National 470672 1.375 ID, 2.250 OD $13.00
Left output flange bearing         8134586 6007         6007 (107?)                        $41.00
Intermediate shaft needle bearing  8144759 BH208        BH208           1.250 ID, 1.625 OD $16.60
IMS to Right output needle brg     8134759 B168         B168            1" ID, 1.248 OD    $16.59
Right output flange bearing        8133607 U261L & U298 A9 set          1.378 ID           $37.17
Right output flange seal           8130762 35938-1      National 2146   1.688 ID           $13.49
Because it has different seals left and right, it looks like my axle is an '83+

Still to come: diff carrier bearings & pinion bearings. Those should be easier as they are standard Dana 30 overhaul parts.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:26 am

The dual prybar method worked easily... no case spreader required.

Code: Select all

Description                        AMC PN  Part Mark    Industry        Dimensions         Carquest 
Left output flange seal            8134587 543290       National 470672 1.375 ID, 2.250 OD $13.00
Left output flange bearing         8134586 6007         6007 (107?)                        $41.00
Intermediate shaft needle bearing  8144759 BH208        BH208           1.250 ID, 1.625 OD $16.60
IMS to Right output needle brg     8134759 B168         B168            1" ID, 1.248 OD    $16.59
Right output flange bearing        8133607 U261L & U298 A9 set          1.378 ID           $37.17
Right output flange seal           8130762 35938-1      National 2146   1.688 ID           $13.49

Inner pinion bearing cup           8126499 HM88610                                         $ 9.25
Inner pinion bearing cone          8126499 HM88649                                         $19.57
Outer pinion bearing cup           8124052 02820                                           $ 9.56
Outer pinion bearing cone          8124052 02872                                           $26.13
Differential carrier bearing cup   8126500 LM501314     Set A35                            $19.17 (set)
Pinion Seal                        998092               5778            1.552 ID, 3.16 OD  $15.06
The pinion slinger got a little mangled during removal of the pinion bearings.
I didn't see a part mark on the pinion seal and it was extremely mangled during removal anyway.

Now the housing is completely empty except for the intermediate shaft roller bearing mentioned above.

The side gear splines (left output flange and intermediate shaft) are 1.160 x 27 spline... that's barely bigger than the Fiero side gear splines.

Here's the inside of the housing... haven't cleaned it yet and it's pretty nasty.

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The inside of the disco housing and the intermediate shaft roller bearing

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The typical condition of bearings in this unit

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The pinion isn't in bad condition except for the teeth

Image


The NP 229 output yoke and the Dana 30 input yoke... you guess which is which ;)

Image

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:40 pm

Per my previous work: http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... 8&p=142402

I set up an electrolysis cell with the pinion in it tonight. I'll see if there's any result by tomorrow morning. I reused the bucket and washing soda, so I probably have the concentration wrong and will need to dump and remix the solution (as well as bead blasting the sacrificial steel)... but that's what I was able to get done today.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by ericjon262 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:02 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Per my previous work: http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... 8&p=142402

I set up an electrolysis cell with the pinion in it tonight. I'll see if there's any result by tomorrow morning. I reused the bucket and washing soda, so I probably have the concentration wrong and will need to dump and remix the solution (as well as bead blasting the sacrificial steel)... but that's what I was able to get done today.

the electrolysis idea is cool, thanks for sharing.
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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:32 pm

You're welcome! It is cool. It's a great and time efficient (in terms of required man hours, not elapsed time) way to get rid of rust.

The light rust came right off the pinion overnight. There's still some sludge and heavier rust on it which I'll need to take to the parts washer and/or brass bristle wire brush to clean up, then finish the job with the electrolysis cell.

If I can get the pinion clean, I'll likely just clean the diff carrier and drop the whole thing into the bucket to de-rust.

If I can save the gears and just replace bearings and seals, that will save me a chunk of time setting up new gears, as I'll be able to drop all the original shims back in with new bearings and just bolt the unit back together.

I also still need to clean out the housing and do some touch up prep and paint work on exterior surfaces of the housing, cover and axle flanges.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:37 pm

The pinion is nice and shiny, but there are definite boogers on the surface finish in the valleys away from the outer edges of the teeth. My dad knows a guy who runs a trans & axle shop, so we'll take it to him to see what he thinks of it and whether or not it will make noise if assembled as is.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:09 pm

I took the clean pinion and the rusty diff to my dad's friend who has owned a trans & driveline shop for years and years. He said it should be fine; effectively saying that he'd put worse together and hadn't had problems.

I cleaned the cell up, refreshed the water and soda and put it to work on the fully assembled diff.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:29 pm

From this:
The Dark Side of Will wrote:The pinion isn't in bad condition except for the teeth

Image
To this:

Image

via electrolytic rust removal.

From this:
The Dark Side of Will wrote: Here's the inside of the housing... haven't cleaned it yet and it's pretty nasty.

Image
To this:

Image

Was just a matter of cleaning it up in the parts washer


So with a Dana 30 overhaul kit, I'll be able to put the pinion and diff back in, verify that the pattern is still good and torque the caps down. I'm musing about throwing ARP cap bolts at it just for S&G's.

I also need to do some rust cleanup and painting on the output flanges where the bead blaster didn't get to them when I was initially blasting the assembled unit. And replaced the intermediate shaft roller.

A few other odds and ends, but it should be "togetherable" soon.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:35 am

My dad and uncle snagged a '70's GMC Motorhome (aka "Trans-Mode") for *FREE* a while back--it was sitting at my uncle's brother-in-law's house.

It uses the longitudinal FWD TH425 tranasaxle with an Olds 455 engine.

My dad wants to put a Duramax in it.
To that end, he bought a '66(?) TH425 with the "switch pitch" converter, expecting that he'd be able to use the hydraulic control for the switch pitch to operate a lockup converter.
The diff looks VERY similar in concept to the Eagle Dana 30.

The diff for this unit is
A) HUGE - designed for big block torque behind Cadillac 500's and Oldsmobile 455's.
B) Set up for independent suspension almost identically to the Dana 30 at the front of an Eagle.
C) Very narrow across the output flanges, with the pumpkin itself being very narrow left-right, in order to fit between the frame rails of the Olds and Caddy bodies of the day.

IOW, it's the ideal diff architecture to swap into the front end of an Eagle.
Stock ratios included 2.73, 3.07 and 3.21, but there are aftermarket 3.54's available... :-D

I'm going to finish up the D30 and get the car on the road, but this option makes WAY more sense than trying to adapt the Jaguar Dana 44 to the front of an Eagle.

*ALSO* DPR Performance will shortly (like 2 weeks) be bringing to market an adjustable solid pinion bearing spacer for the D30... So I can put mine back together without a crush sleeve.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by ericjon262 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:19 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:My dad and uncle snagged a '70's GMC Motorhome (aka "Trans-Mode") for *FREE* a while back--it was sitting at my uncle's brother-in-law's house.

It uses the longitudinal FWD TH425 tranasaxle with an Olds 455 engine.

My dad wants to put a Duramax in it.
To that end, he bought a '66(?) TH425 with the "switch pitch" converter, expecting that he'd be able to use the hydraulic control for the switch pitch to operate a lockup converter.
The diff looks VERY similar in concept to the Eagle Dana 30.

The diff for this unit is
A) HUGE - designed for big block torque behind Cadillac 500's and Oldsmobile 455's.
B) Set up for independent suspension almost identically to the Dana 30 at the front of an Eagle.
C) Very narrow across the output flanges, with the pumpkin itself being very narrow left-right, in order to fit between the frame rails of the Olds and Caddy bodies of the day.

IOW, it's the ideal diff architecture to swap into the front end of an Eagle.
Stock ratios included 2.73, 3.07 and 3.21, but there are aftermarket 3.54's available... :-D

I'm going to finish up the D30 and get the car on the road, but this option makes WAY more sense than trying to adapt the Jaguar Dana 44 to the front of an Eagle.

*ALSO* DPR Performance will shortly (like 2 weeks) be bringing to market an adjustable solid pinion bearing spacer for the D30... So I can put mine back together without a crush sleeve.
I would have never even thought of that as an option... Cool!
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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:44 pm

Spline info here: http://www.fiero.com/forum/Archives/Arch ... 990-3.html
The TH325 has a 27 spline interface like the TH350 and TH700. The trans output shaft has male splines and the pinion has female splines.

The pinion itself sits between the pinion bearings, so it should be quite strong. There's a photo on Google, but I'm having trouble getting the URL for it.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:44 am

Got the intermediate shaft roller bearing out.

Image

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