1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:48 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:*ALSO* DPR Performance will shortly (like 2 weeks) be bringing to market an adjustable solid pinion bearing spacer for the D30... So I can put mine back together without a crush sleeve.
Haven't posted on their website or emailed me back yet...

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:55 pm

Sorry for my delay. The Dana 30 spacers are still in line to be built but they’ve been bumped down the list a bit. I don’t want to quote a time frame and be wrong again, but will let you know once they’re ready.
Thanks!
Lynnie
I *really* want to play with a threaded bearing spacer, completely just for S+G's, but I may have to go to a shimmed one to do this in a reasonable time frame.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:16 pm

I ordered the generic Dana 30 bearing and seal kit today from Yukon Gear. The salesman really wanted the sale and gave me the Koyo price for the Timken kit... not complaining and I really hadn't found a much better price anywhere.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:08 pm

The Timken kit from Yukon with a National bearing from CarQuest to hone out to a slip fit on the pinion and use for setup purposes.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by dsrt4 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:04 pm

Pretty cool build. I read every bit of it!

I had a 1986 Eagle wagon right before I bought My Fiero. The PO put in a 8.25 with 3.54's and matched the front I think from a 4 banger sx/4
He left it stock height and added a clifford header. It was pretty peppy. Years ago I had a Gremlin with a 1972 401 from a Javelin with a wagoneer th400 converted to 2wd. I sold off the gremmy and mothballed the 401.

I had always kept ahold of the 401 and th400. It was a pretty low mile unit so I bought a real nice 1986 eagle to shoe horn it into. A guy on one of the forums was making engine mounts and diff brackets for the amc v8's in eagles and I bought a set of those to put the 401 into it once he got all the bugs worked out. I had been working on getting all the other parts together to put it into the eagle when some Old fella offered me WAYYY stupid money for the eagle. Flagged me down driving it and said he had to have it... sold it that day.

I had been wanting a fiero for a long time with a 3800sc so I Sold off the eagle to the old guy and shortly thereafter someone on frans AMC forum offered me a crazy amount for the 401 and th400 I had in the gremmy.

With selling it all off I literally made enough to buy a low mile mint 88gt from southern Cali, have it shipped here and still had plenty left over and then some for the 3800sc swap and everything associated with it plus a spare low mile 3800sc and trans. I hated myself for getting rid of the eagle but it turned out to be a great investment. It ran great as it was with the 2100 swap, that really woke the old I6 up.

I am pretty envious reading the thread. Really makes me want one again. I really want to get a kammback one of these days and do a 3800sc swap with the spare engine I have collecting dust in the shop. That would probably be wishful thinking. I haven't seen a decent Kammback for sale in years.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:26 pm

My dad picked up an SX/4 with a 304 swap for a song. The swap is terribly done and the transmission broke the reverse band, so he's not happy with it. That's my only experience with AMC V8's.

I'd just like to keep a stock manifold in this one, but I intend to use a York A/C compressor as an engine driven air compressor, replacing the fan pulley with the compressor clutch and driving the compressor with a shaft in order to mount it behind the Jeep A/C compressor. I also have a "belt driven welder" kit which I'd like to figure out how to mount as well.

I should be able to get the housing cleaned up this weekend.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:02 pm

I did enough this weekend to realize that I need to make some press mandrels to install the bearings. I also need a new pinion oil slinger, as the old one didn't straighten as easily as I thought it would. I can check with CarQuest tomorrow on that.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:42 am

I found this page: http://www.4wheelparts.com/hardparts/HP ... x?hpDID=51

With this diagram:

Image

To be very helpful in selecting the right slingers or order, as I bent most of mine getting the pinion out and pinion bearings off.

Since DRP hasn't gotten their act together for producing the D30 threaded pinion bearing spacers, I will have to order a shimmed one.

Does the Eagle D30 have a short pinion or long pinion?

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:44 pm

So I've been slow rolling this build and being concerned about other things *WAAAYYYY* too long. I ordered my new garage door 10 days ago with 3 weeks of lead time, so I'm out of other things to pretend I'm busy with.

I'm going to make my own solid pinion spacer, so here are the requirements:

Minimum ID: bare clearance on a 1.375" shaft.
Maximum OD: ~1.670
Minimum length: 2.310 less thickness of outer pinion bearing shims and slingers

EDIT: 1 1/4" schedule 40 pipe has a 1.380 ID and 1.660 OD... PERFECT!

Relevant dims:
Inner Pinion Bearing Cage ID: 1.772
Inner Pinion Bearing Cone OD small end: 1.670
Outer Pinion Bearing Cage ID: 1.900
Outer Pinion Bearing Cone OD small end: 1.780

Unfortunately I can't find the original crush sleeve from which to measure, which PTFO's me.

McMaster carries rounds shims with 1.250" ID and 1.750" OD (e.g. PN 3088A328 ). The ID of the shims can be smaller than the ID of the spacer because the shaft diameter steps from 1.375" where the inner bearing cone presses on to 1.125" where the outer bearing cone presses on.

Inner Pinion bearing cone press mandrel:
Min ID: Bare clearance for 1.375" shaft
Max OD: ~1.770 (fit inside inner pinion bearing cage)

Inner pinion bearing cup press mandrel:
Max OD: 2.842
Min OD: 2.660
Shoulder max OD: 2.100
Shoulder min length: 0.780

Outer pinion bearing cup press mandrel:
Max OD: 2.872
Min OD: 2.643
Shoulder max OD: 2.236
Shoulder min length: 0.685

I won't need a press mandrel for the outer pinion bearing cone because once I have the shims for the solid bearing spacer set correctly using the honed out setup bearing, I just install the service bearing with the yoke and pinion nut.

ETA: The place from which my dad is semi-retired had a stick of 1 1/4 pipe, so we cut off 10" of it in a pipe cutter and then squared it off in a lathe. I'll measure the length of spacer required and chop than that off, then shim it.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:56 pm

So appaaaaaaaaaaarently, I am an idiot.

The outer bearing seats against the shoulder on the pinion. No crush sleeve or bearing spacer required. I didn't remember there being a crush sleeve that came out, and I thought I had just misplaced it... but there never was one and I just wasn't paying attention when I took it apart. The slinger for the outer bearing is convex up in this photo

Image

Also installed the cups in the housing. It turns out the old races make the best press mandrels. It wasn't clear prior to assembly that none of the cups go far enough into their bores that the old race would also be pressed in and difficult to remove.
The small baffle has the bulge *TOWARD* the camera in this shot (that's the only way it clears the inner bearing):

Image

The shims are between the baffle and the housing.
Here's the other side of the same shot:

Image

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:42 pm

Honed the setup bearing today.

My dad had a brake cylinder hone, which is definitely the wrong tool for the job. I had him get new stones for it a couple of weeks ago.
I was able just barely to grab the bearing in the drill press vice and use the drill press to turn the brake cylinder hone. I cranked the tension in the hone up as far as it would go. We used a little bit of heating oil from his tank as cutting oil. It became surprisingly cloudy with swarf as we periodically rinsed off the hone in it. We flat wore out the brand new set of brake cylinder hone stones, BUT the setup bearing slips on and off the pinion shaft easily now.

Image

Image

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by crzyone » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:12 pm

That's a pretty slick honing job. Nice use of the drill press!

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:40 am

Thanks!
This being my first *real* diff, I wanted to try out a lot of the techniques I've heard of to make the process easier.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:19 pm

First trial assembly netted 46 inch lbs of pinion preload... The spec is 12-15 with new bearings. I guess I have to order a shim pack!

ETA: Realized I had installed a protective washer (or maybe just a thick shim) on the wrong side of the bearing. I rectified that error, but I'm still seeing 32 in-lbs!

ETA2: I ordered 3088A937 from McMaster-Carr, which is an assortment of round steel shims with 1 1/8" ID and 1 5/8" OD.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:28 pm

I threw in a .020 shim and had perceptible end play. I swapped that out for a .010 and have no end play with very light preload. I probably need a .008, but I realized that I didn't have my inch pound torque wrench with me, so I'll have to do some more next weekend. :-o

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:27 pm

Went 0.007 above stock (0), sanity checked original shim pack (still 32), then .004 (~8), then .003(~11), then .0025 to finally got a reading between the 12.5 and 15 in lb graduations on my torque wrench. Some genius in China laid out the markings on the dial with three marks between 10's... so it doesn't have 12, 14, 16, 18 like an American would expect... it has 12.5, 15, 17.5. %)

Anyway, pinion bearing preload is set. Next: carrier bearing preload and contact pattern. I sure hope the factory pinion depth setting is right, because fixing it requires removing the inner bearing cup from the housing (and probably mangling the inner bearing outer slinger) in order to reset pinion depth.

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:57 pm

Carrier is in place with the original shims, but I did not get the chance to check the pattern today.

Image

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:45 am

Really awesome source of differential and axle setup specs:
http://www.crawlpedia.com/ring_pinion_setup.htm
http://www.drivetrainshop.com/Dana_30_s/85.htm

Dana 30:
Pinion preload: 12-15 inlbs with new bearings
Backlash: 0.006 - 0.010
Ring gear bolt torque: 55 ftlbs
Bearing cap torque: 60 ftlbs

However, I've seen 45 ftlbs here:
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/sh ... orque-Spec

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:30 am

The bearing cap bolts are at 45 ftlbs. I found this thread asserting that 45 ftlbs is the FSM number: http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/sh ... orque-Spec

But also found this page saying that it should be 60 ftlbs: http://www.drivetrainshop.com/Dana_30_s/85.htm
My dad has an Eagle FSM... it says 57 ftlbs.

My dad's indicator set disappeared, so we had to borrow one in order to check backlash.
This set came out in spec at 0.010".

Image

We did the first pattern check... which was easy. I tried to take photos of the pattern to post on the internet... which was hard.

Image

Image

Here's Dana's own setup guide:
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5717.PDF

And a quick read on NAXJA: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1064802

It looks like the pattern is a smidge toward the toe but not sure if there's a good enough strip of no contact just below the top land.
However, this is a set of original gears, installed at the original pinion depth in the case in which they were originally installed. The only components I changed are the bearings. It *should* go back together just fine with the original shims, yes? The inner pinion bearing and both carrier bearing shims are original. I changed the pinion outer bearing stack .002 as noted above in order to get the pinion preload right.

What do you guys think of the pattern? Need a better pic?

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Re: 1985 AMC Eagle wagon build

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:43 am

Hauled the diff up to a friend of my dad's who operates his own shop and has done a lot more drivetrain work than we have. Once we got him over the idea that the drive and coast sides were swapped compared to what he was used to, he liked the pattern and the preload, so we're proceeding to button it up. I swapped out the setup bearing for the "real" bearing, pulled it on with the yoke, then installed the pinion seal... then realized I'd forgotten the slinger, so had to carefully pry the pinion seal back out in order to install it. I used some of the anaerobic goo for sealing Getrag case halves on the OD of the pinion seal to reinstall it, since the factory application had been scraped off by the first installation.

The paper manual spec for the pinion nut is 210 ftlbs. The torque wrench only goes to 200, so that will have to do.
I pulled the bearing cap bolts to 60 ftlbs because the book specifies 57, but one of them felt a little weird. The originals are 7/16-14 x 2.25 with grade *5* markings on the heads. I ordered an ARP 645-2500 kit with five 7/16-14 x 2.5" bolts and washers. The holes are 2.578 deep, so a 2.5" bolt with washer should have almost 0.180 of extra depth left over. That should be plenty. If not, we can run a bottoming tap into each hole.

CarQuest quoted me almost $90 for the remaining three bearings and two seals. We'll see what another local supplier can do this week.

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