5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Sounds good, but my dad would never go for that much cam.

It is a bit frustrating how easily this car could exceed The Mule's power output.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Decided to swap the C5 LS1 pan for a C6 LS2 pan in order to improve lower end clearance and make it easier to build engine mount brackets. Pan's on the way.

Unfortunately, otherwise he seems reasonably satisfied with engine position. The truck crank pulley straddles the steering rack and crossmember. The back of the engine is close to the firewall, but could be closer. The heater and A/C connections are about in plane with the tops of the valve covers.

If the engine could go down an inch or so, it could go back another 1"+. However, there's a projection on the back of the truck intake manifold that interferes with the firewall preventing it going back and the truck crank pulley prevents it from going lower.

So if I can convince him to go with the LS2 car manifold and try out the LS4 crank pulley (and eventually the rest of the LS4 accessory drive) then we might be able to find enough clearance to do what I want to do with the engine. I think that the LS4 crank pulley would tuck close enough to the block to drop in behind the steering rack if the engine went back another inch... But it's all (meaning LS2 manifold AND LS4 accessory drive) or nothing in that regard, and he's comfortable with where it is now, so it's unlikely that he'll want to try my idea.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Originally posted by fieroguru:

Part # is ACDELCO OE SERVICE 12635650 Harmonic Balancer. Cheapest place shipped to you is Rock Bottom Auto Parts on ebay. Shipped is $138.78. I just ordered a new one as mine has a wobble on it and I am fighting a slight belt chirp. If you go with this balancer, then you will likely have to go with an electric water pump or use the LS4 one (if it fits).

Here are a few pictures:
Image

With a truck water pump:
Image
Image
http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/0 ... .html#p880

Pully face is 2 5/8 out from the block face... Didn't get a chance to measure over the weekend, but will keep this in mind.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by crzyone »

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Sounds good, but my dad would never go for that much cam.

It is a bit frustrating how easily this car could exceed The Mule's power output.

I have yet to see a real N* N/A build. Ported heads, cams, high comp pistons etc. I imagine getting 450-500 N/A would be doable.

Would be nice if Darton made some sleeves that could bump the displacement over 5L.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I'm getting 312 at the wheels with stock heads/cams/manifolds, etc. I don't doubt I will make a lot more power with ported heads and 288 cams.
However, getting there is a lot of money and time, whereas it's much easier with the LS engines.

The Northstar can't really take much more displacement. The stock bore is 93mm on a 102mm bore center. The rod ratio is 1.8:1, so it's good for high RPM as-is, but will get worse quickly when adding more stroke. There isn't much room to raise the piston pins... Overall it won't take much more displacement.

BMW does 94mm on a 98mm bore center in the S62, but those engines are a bit fragile in terms of keeping a head gasket seal, especially when boosted.
I think BMW's current turbo V8's are running 92mm bores on the same 98mm bore centers and pushing over 550 to the wheels... so I guess a sleeved Northstar might be able to go to 96mm bores. That pushes it from 4565 to 4864 cc's.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

This project has been sitting for a while (obviously). My dad had cancer surgery April of last year, and had his gall bladder out since then as well. His abdominal/intestinal comfort/discomfort is stabilizing from day-to-day and we're getting back to this one. It's also good father/son time on Labor day weekend.

We *have* been accumulating parts.

C5 Corvette mounts and arms, which will support the engine on a custom but simple crossmember. The center-center on the studs on the bottoms of the Corvette mounts is 17 3/8", and the outside dimension on the Datsun frame rails is just under 30".

Bellhousing from '89 Chevy pickup.
Saginaw 4 speed transmission with BW overdrive used in production with the Saginaw 3 speed trans that shared case & output shaft with the 4 speed.
2.85 gear set from late-'60's/early-'70's small V8 RWD cars... Novas and similar. There were taller and shorter gear sets available, but this is the tallest commonly available set. The previous Datsun with a '95 4.3 V8 (L99)--Gen II/LT1 style engine--had the same driveline with the 3.11 first gear set, and that was a bit short with the 3.54 rear.
We think the 2.85 first and 3.36 rear combo on this car should be quite nice with the extra displacement and torque. The 4.3 only makes about 250 ftlbs stock.

Production crank hub spacer (PN ?) with a chromoly flywheel (blanking on brand right now...).
The 10.4" LUK clutch for the L88 Corvette is the current clutch front-runner.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Traditional Chevy bellhousing on LS.

Crank flange to edge of full OD of splines: 1/2" - 17/32"
Depth of Flywheel (crank mounting face to friction surface): 13/16"
Put together, these numbers mean that the end of the full OD of the splines is about 5/16" "below" the friction surface of the flywheel. An old Chevy disk we have on hand shows that the ID splines in the disk extend 9/16" below the friction surface of the flywheel... so putting it together like this means that there would be 1/4" of the splines in the hub of the clutch disk not engaging the transmission input shaft.

This is a predictable result, considering that the LS crank flange is .400 closer to the bellhousing surface than the SBC crank flange is.

Distance between input shaft pilot shoulder and face of crank flywheel pilot shoulder: 0.085".
Depth of bellhousing: 6 5/16" (later remeasured more accurately as 6.300")
LS Bellhousing face to crank flange: 0.287"
Bellhousing transmission face to crank flange: 6.025"

For S&G's, here's a BMW Getrag 265:
Tip of input shaft to first shoulder of bearing reatiner: 6 1/8
First shoulder of bearing retainer to mounting surface: 1.145

Total "stick out": 7 9/32

Tip of input shaft to end of full OD of splines: 1 1/4".
Spline "stick out": 6 1/32"

So the edge of the splines ends up AT the crank flange with zero adapter plate thickness, using the same 6.300 bellhousing.

Register diameter: 2.203
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Drops for the new engine crossmember welded up:

Image
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Crossmember stuck in place. The final positioning will happen with the engine on it to make sure the engine is in the right place, including with the correct driveline angle:

Image

Iron block 5.3 with C5 Corvette oil pan, engine mount brackets and engine mounts:

Image

Crossmember in place on the mount studs:

Image
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

The 5.3 has been sitting in the engine bay, but the final crossmember location has not been fixed yet.
With the truck accessory drive, the steering rack sits between the timing cover and the belt drive. It fits there because the crank pulley sticks out so far.
However, at this location, the engine could still go back an inch or so.
To help with that, I snagged my dad an LS4 waterpump that popped up on eBay for cheap. It was a father's day present, even.
Having that will let us test fit to see if the LS4 belt drive could drop in behind the steering rack if we move the engine back another inch.

The other issue is that the A/C connections on the firewall are right behind the left valve cover. Even *IF* the tube ends won't interfere with the valve cover/cylinder head, there certainly won't be room to connect them to anything.

However, in looking at Datsun evaporators on the internet, I discovered that the tubes are separate parts that can simply be unscrewed from the evaporator core. That means we can just bend up new tubes to come through the firewall wherever we want them to, thereby solving the interference problem in a fairly straightforward way.

I'm looking forward to getting back so I can help my dad make some serious progress on this ride.

Wheels are bought and delivered. We swapped The Mule's old rear tires on two of them for test fit. They're 16x8's, but I don't have a handy link to them right now. That's certainly a step up from the modified 14x7's from a MkII Supra that my Dad had on the previous Datsun.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by FieroWanaBe1 »

Having that will let us test fit to see if the LS4 belt drive could drop in behind the steering rack if we move the engine back another inch.
I have a waterpump, crank pulley,and alternator bracket if you need them, I wont be using them,.
car.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

FieroWanaBe1 wrote:
Having that will let us test fit to see if the LS4 belt drive could drop in behind the steering rack if we move the engine back another inch.
I have a waterpump, crank pulley,and alternator bracket if you need them, I wont be using them,.
Interesting. Would you be willing to separate?

I definitely need the pulley, but already have the pump, as mentioned. I don't *think* I'll be able to work with the stock LS4 alternator placement and belt routing due to use of the truck or LS car manifold in lieu of the LS4 manifold, as well as possibly hood clearance. However it might be informative to have the bracket to see what's workable.

What would you like to get for the set or separate pieces? PM me if you'd rather discuss there.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Pulley, alt bracket and tensioner arrived.
It may take until I get back to the US to try the crank pulley and move the engine around to see if it drops behind the rack. My dad thinks having new parts is cool, but is unlikely to try it himself.

The A/C connections are on the left side of the firewall. They are right at the top of the cylinder head and will have to be moved in order to push the engine back the remaining inch or so.
I realized that since the tubes are separate from the evaporator core and can be replaced, we don't have to bring them through the firewall close to where they originally came through.

The LS4 water pump housing doubles as a bracket for a number of things, one of which is the A/C compressor. The Datsun steering shaft is likely to go right through where the LS4 A/C compressor is mounted. Either that or the steering shaft will need to go right through where the thermostat and coolant connections are, which will be harder to deal with.

So if the A/C compressor won't work in the LS4 location, it can be mounted on the right side of the engine, possibly low. We can then bend up new lines to the evaporator such that they come through the firewall on the RIGHT side of the engine bay instead of the left. That neatly avoids having to take lines or hoses from one side of the engine bay to the other, which would require either long hoses in the way or bending a lot of tubing. Sweeeet.
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