5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

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The Dark Side of Will
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5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

My dad's putting together another Z.

I learned to drive in a '75 280Z with an L99 (4.3L LT1 style V8), Saginaw 4 speed and BW overdrive.

About 5 years ago some old guy with his lights off pulled his Caddy out in front of my parents. Nobody was hurt but the body side TC strut mount was relocated, which totalled the car.

My dad's had a '74 260Z (Texas car; late body wiht impact bumpers) in the shed for a while. He's finally moving on getting that car on the road.

I convinced him to get a 5.3 instead of an LT1. He has that on the stand right now, swapping to the C5 Corvette oil pan. While he has the pan off, we want to install ARP rod bolts. Summit shows PN ARP-134-6006 for LS1's. Is this the "correct" part number? Is there a "better" set? I had assumed there were multiple grades, but that may not be necessary for stock rods. Comments?

He also found the gearset with the 2.85 first gear for the Saginaw, as well as a rare 3.36 R200 diff.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Also looking for cam input, as it's a heck of a lot easier to change the cam while the engine's on the stand vice in the car.

What RPM is "safe" for the bottom end with ARP rod bolts? What will have to be done to match that with the valvetrain?

We're not looking for peak power higher than 6000 RPM, just a little protection from mechanical over-rev or ability to hold a gear a little longer than advisable in the twisteez.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

I believe the cheaper ARP bolts are for stock rods, but stock-bolt, '01-up LS1s have been proven ok for 7000 in first gear.
Exhaust-porting the heads, as I did my '01 #706? 5.3L LM7 heads is safe, easy, guaranteed HP with no downside, so long as you don't go crazy with it. Head gaskets are cheap.
I'd do the LS6 springs, they're going for under $60 per set, new. They're good for just under 0.570" lift.
cam, do you want best average torque, with a peak around 5500? Or peak HP right at 6000? Either way, it'll happily zing up to 6500 in first.
Also, long tube headers or exhaust manifolds?
Definitely need to invest in better pushrods.
Also, if you don't end up using the truck damper or the truck alt bracket, assuming you have them, or the pass.-side exh. man., I'm in need.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

Also, smooth idle, or noticeable?
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Is the part number shown above the correct ARP part number? Just want confirmation.

I don't think he's interested in pulling the heads just now.

Car will have manifolds, not headers. Don't know exactly what application yet, and the application may be different between the left and right, depending on what fits.

Not sure what the accessory drive is going to look like yet, but you're welcome to what we don't use.

So for valvetrain upgrades, LS6 springs and upgraded pushrods will match a bottom end with ARP bolts. Is there a favorite brand for pushrods? I @$$ume the stock length is what's desired. Still going to get the ARP bolts for confidence.

More on lope tomorrow... old guy's in bed now.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

According to the ARP online catalog, http://issuu.com/arpbolts/docs/catalog2 ... ipBtn=true
The entry level rod "bolts" ( capscrews ) for stock LSx rods are PN 134-6006. The best version is 234-6301. No in-between offering shown.
For pushrods, it seems most everyone gets them from the same source as whatever cam they like. Thunder Racing or Texas Speed or whichever.
There's not much space for a larger diameter, though slightly larger is possible. But most of the upgrade is thicker wall and better steel.
Whatever you post about power peak and idle quality, I'm still going to spec you a custom COMP cam, and I used their pushrods in my 10.21-second 355 '88 IROC-Z.
I think there used to be some hype about Smith Bros.? pushrods for the LS1, but not anymore.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Unbeknownst to me, he had already ordered the 134-6006's. They're here and ready to go in. I already had a bolt stretch gauge from putting the Northstar together.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Current tires are 788 turns per mile.
Borg Warner OD is 0.70 and final gear will be 3.36.
This should be about 1850 RPM at 60 MPH.

He didn't have much to say either way about lope. He doesn't want to sacrifice gas mileage (is it a performance car or not? %) ). T56 isn't an option because he's cheap and already has the Saginaw/BW hardware.

So it needs to have enough low end to be responsive in OD and get good gas mileage. Whatever top end and lope it ends up with while satisfying those requirements seems to be OK. I guess.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

Based on what I've read online, you could probably do okay with a popular 220 cam. Probably on a 114 lobe separation. Plenty of choices.
But I'd call COMP, and ask for lobe 3708 as the intake, and lobe 3712 as the exhaust, on a 114 lobe separation, ground 4 degrees advanced.
The specs would be 263 / 271 advertised duration, 210 / 218 at 0.050", and 0.556" / 0.563" lift.
That'll pull best from 1600-5600. It'll be great for mileage and mid-range torque. It'll hang on okay past 6000. It'll have a good idle quality. It'll be fine for a mild power-adder. It's a daily-driver cam. It'll work with the low-cost LS6 springs, even with mild boost. It'll need very little tuning.
It will out-perform both of the stock LS6 cams, all of the stock LS1 cams, and both of the stock 5.3 cams. And it's not so big that you'll ever wish you'd gone smaller. It's conservative, but big enough to be worth the cost. This could pass for a GM-original cam, when you drive it.
Everyone on LS1tech.com will suggest the 220 / 220-114 as a minimum. I call it a maximum. It'll have a noticeable idle. It'll pull harder from 3000 on up. It will require a dyno-tune. If you decide on that, COMP's lobe number is 3713. That gets you 0.564" lift, for LS6 springs. I think it has a character that better matches my ideas of how a 260ZX should drive. I think you have enough gear to use it, assuming a great tune. This could not pass for a GM-original cam. This is a weekend-car cam.
Option 3 is a "shelf" cam. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam- ... =1399&sb=0 It requires buying COMP's latest version of their 26918-16 springs. They call for duals, but those aren't truly necessary, and they require pulling the heads for machining. This is an upper-midrange cam. Best from 2500-up, probably peaking around 5500, but should pull 6500. Will require a dyno-tune, but will nearest approximate a 5.7L. This one is most likely to have the most traction problems. As in, midway through second gear. It'll take a ProCharger at 6 psi very happily. Beyond 6 psi, get the dual springs that COMP suggests.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Current tires are 788 turns per mile.
Did you look this up on tirerack.com, or calculate it?
I've found that the tirerack numbers are always badly wrong.
Inches per mile is fixed and constant. So is Pi. And the circumference of any given tire will reduce slightly with wear, but no amount of load can reduce it.
Based on the two dozen tires I've ordered from them, their numbers for diameter are close enough.
So to get tire revs per mile, the formula is 20168.0672268 / dia.
You'll find their number never matches this.
I've sent e-mails to tirerack, BFG, and others about this, to no avail.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Thanks for the cam input!
Atilla the Fun wrote: The specs would be 263 / 271 advertised duration, 210 / 218 at 0.050", and 0.556" / 0.563" lift.

That gets you 0.564" lift, for LS6 springs.
We've heard that you can't run more than .530 lift without machining down the valve guides or altering the stem seals. Is that not the case?
Atilla the Fun wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote:Current tires are 788 turns per mile.
Did you look this up on tirerack.com, or calculate it?
I calculated the TPM from the calculated diameter from the spec size of 245/60-14. The car will inherit the previous Z's 14x7 wheels from a MkII Celica Slopra.

That TPM figure does NOT factor in actual rolling radius due to loading.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

Yes, loading will reduce the effective rolling radius, but since it can't change the tire circumference, so what? The circumference determines the distance travelled per rotation, no matter how long the load makes the contact patch.
Anyway, I do remember all the fuss about 0.530" lift. But these days all you read on ls1tech.com is how 0.580+ will fit without machining, if you just change springs.
I haven't checked my LSx heads for myself, funds haven't been there, but I can understand this. Remember the old fuss about Vortec 350 heads only taking 0.460" lift? Well, I personally checked several, and with just a change of springs, I found clearance for over 0.500", with stock valves, stock retainers, and generic "z28" springs from CP. So I can see the LSx being the same situation.
Get an air ho tool or some rope, to hold the valves shut. Traditional, cheapo $15, lever-arm-type SBC spring compressors can be made to work. I've done it with success on all of my LSx heads. While changing springs, use a vernier caliper to measure the clearance between the retainer and the seal. If my calipers wasn't broken, I'd check my own heads right now.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Atilla the Fun wrote: I'd do the LS6 springs, they're going for under $60 per set, new. They're good for just under 0.570" lift.
I assume this means GM springs? $60 on ebay or from a dealership?
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

www.gmpartsdirect.com has 12499224 for $52. Beat that! That's like $3 per spring.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Lol, and only $13 shipping, too. I was expecting $30. %)
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

Is that thing a 4 lug on 4.5" lug circle?
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Atilla the Fun wrote:Is that thing a 4 lug on 4.5" lug circle?
4 lugs, yes. Don't remember if it's 4 or 4.25, but it's not 4.5.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by Atilla the Fun »

The '80s Mustangs were 4.25", my '85 300ZX is 4.50". I'll soon be looking to sell my 15x7s, was thinking of offering you a deal if you were interested. Worst you could do is type "no".
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Whatever pattern a Mk II Supra had, as those wheels fit once the hub pilot bore is enlarged a little bit.

I should be able to post pics tonight.
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Re: 5.3 Powered Datsun build thread

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

The '75... The original silver and blue two tone was pretty sharp, but the fenders and hood were pretty bad.

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Yes, the bumper is what it looks like

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C2 Corvette shifter and FC RX-7 seats

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LT1 style engine in the bay... lower and further back than a conventional SBC due to lack of rear distributor. 5.3 will be similarly located, but with a taller manifold.

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Recipient car

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Engine on the stand

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Collection of manifolds from which we will pick to make the square peg go in the round hole

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