S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

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The Dark Side of Will
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Measuring my wrecked E34 535i...

On top of the mounts, the studs are 23 7/8 center to center at the interface plane, with the mounts in the M30 position. The upper and lower studs on the mounts appear to be concentric, even though the mount studs are off center from the mount pads.

On the crossmember, there are no less than FIVE pairs of mount locations, at three different lateral separations and two different longitudinal planes.

The M30 locations are 25 1/8 center to center at the interface plane.

The other locations are 23 9/16 and 22 7/16.

On each pad, the holes are 13/16 and 1 1/8 apart.

The M30 mounts are right at 2 1/2" tall.

On my dad's iX automatic, the engine mount stud centers appear to be 16 1/2" forward of the bellhousing face.

I'll put my dad's inclinometer to work tomorrow to figure out what the angle of the engine mount pads is.

Also got my spare iX crossmember to the QC/CMM guy for reverse engineering, but he's in the middle of an ISO audit and probably won't be able to get to it until the end of the month.

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I took some mount measurements on the iX crossmember last weekend, but hadn't gotten organized enough to post them up until today.

The tops of the mounts are about 35 degrees apart (each one tilted in 17.5 or so).
The tops studs on the mounts are 21 5/8" center to center.
The top surfaces of the mount towers appear to be 40 degrees apart (each one tilted in 20 degrees) HOWEVER, mine have been pretty abused... maybe by AWD clutch dumps, maybe by some idiot jacking it up on the oil pan. The part of the tower that's supposed to be flat for holding the mount was pulled up a little around the bolt hole. RealOEM shows them as discon, unfortunately. :(

The holes in the mount towers were 22 13/16" center to center.

The was 0 degree longitudinal inclination difference between the crossmember face that bolts to the frame rails and the mount locations on the towers.

So with my previous measurements:
The Dark Side of Will wrote:Measuring my wrecked E34 535i...

On top of the mounts, the studs are 23 7/8 center to center at the interface plane, with the mounts in the M30 position. The upper and lower studs on the mounts appear to be concentric, even though the mount studs are off center from the mount pads.

On the crossmember, there are no less than FIVE pairs of mount locations, at three different lateral separations and two different longitudinal planes.

The M30 locations are 25 1/8 center to center at the interface plane.

The other locations are 23 9/16 and 22 7/16.

On each pad, the holes are 13/16 and 1 1/8 apart.

The M30 mounts are right at 2 1/2" tall.

On my dad's iX automatic, the engine mount stud centers appear to be 16 1/2" forward of the bellhousing face.
The Dark Side of Will wrote:The E34 engine mount pads on the crossmember are EACH inclined about 15 degrees inward.
They are about 4 degrees front high (tilted back) compared to the FRAME RAILS. As my E34 is wrecked, I don't know the inclination of the frame rails when the car is on its wheels. I'd guess that BMW would design similar frame rail angles into both E30 and E34.
The E34 M30 mount is 2.580" tall.
The top studs on the E34 M30 mounts are almost an inch wider than the E30 mount studs. Not that that matters...
The angles are slightly different, but I can change the heights of the mounting pads on the crossmember to fix that. The tower should be able to take a little misalignment when the nuts are tightened down.

The E30 mount tower holes (22 13/16") are slightly wider than the narrowest pair of E34 mount holes (22 7/16"). On each side, the E30 holes are 3/16" outboard of the narrowest set of E34 holes, 3/8" inboard of the medium set of E34 holes, and 1 5/32" inboard of the M30 mounting holes.

I don't know which pair the 24V e34's used, so I'll have to wait until I can get my dad's S52 on the engine stand with a pair of E34 mount arms to check it out.

When I have that, I'll also be able to tell how far forward of the bellhousing face the mounting studs are on the E34 arms. That will give me two of the three dimensions I'll need to locate the mounts on the new crossmember.

In the E34, the M50 and M20 use the same rubber mounts, but those mounts were only use in E34's.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Crawled under my iX and took these measurements:

CAB c-c: 25 1/8"
Ball joint c-c: 27 3/4"
Ball joint to CAB longitudinal c-c: 16"

The pivot axes are not parallel. Interesting. I wonder if that's done for ride comfort, some odd aspect of suspension geometry, or just for packaging.
Moving the ball joints without creating much bump steer will take a little more thought, but not a lot. As the rack and ball joints move forward, the ball joints will need to move inboard slightly (even enough to worry about?) to keep the same relationship between the pivot axes and inner tie rod ends.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpos ... tcount=262

Remote master cylinder reservoir from a 2002, serving both brake and clutch master cylinders.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Junk yard control arm arrived on Monday. I'll be able to knock the ball joint out, cut the joint apart and install in the crossmember this weekend. Then the QC guy can CMM it and the data package on the stock crossmember will be complete.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

My dad and I used a 2.063 ID press mandrel to support the control arm. I wouldn't want to use much bigger, but the mandrel ID can go down to 1.980.
We pushed on the ball joint shank and this happened:

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It looks like the press mandrel to remove the ball joint shell needs a min ID of 1.400 and a max OD of 1.570... fairly particular.

Then I popped it into the crossmember so that the CMM guy my dad works with can get the location of the ball and the lateral and longitudinal angles of the shank axis.

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I finally got around to taking the old tank to the band saw where my dad works.

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Here is the return line inside the tank:

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You can see that the return line comes in the side of the tank, the goes down to the bottom of the tank, then back up and over the driveshaft hump, emptying into the swirl chamber in the right lobe. The changes in the diameter of the tube are a venturi/jet pump that uses the velocity of the return fuel flow through the return line to suck fuel from the left lobe of the tank... which then flows out at the swirl chamber so that fuel doesn't get stuck in the left lobe.

Here's the line following removal from the tank:

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Here's a closeup of the jet pump:

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The blockage is *likely* where the small diameter inlet tube meets the profiled larger diameter outer tube at the joint on the right side of the photo, but I haven't dissected the pump any further yet at this point to determine for sure.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by ericjon262 »

so why not just use a single sump tank?
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

The gas tank is under the back seat and the driveshaft has to go through it.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by CincinnatiFiero »

An iX appeared at the local pick and pull. Need anything?
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Nothing iX specific that's easy to move.

It would be handy to have a spare set of front struts to set up with Konis and coil overs, but those are pretty heavy, bulky and difficult to ship.

I have the data package on the crossmember. I guess I'll have to download Googe SketchUp now and see if I can plug the numbers in.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by ericjon262 »

The Dark Side of Will wrote:The gas tank is under the back seat and the driveshaft has to go through it.
lol, a U-joint taking a shit on a hardcore launch just got interesting!
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone popping the rear U-joint... but the subframe surrounds it like a driveshaft loop.

There is an aftermarket yoke that bolts to the BMW 4 bolt flange and allows use of a 1310 domestic u-joint... I'll need 1 for the rear shaft and 2 for the front.

EDIT: I guess I should rephrase this...
The iX uses a one piece rear driveshaft that has a guibo at the front, a shallow plunge fitting in the middle, a non-rebuildable u-joint at the back and bolts to the diff with BMW's classic 4 bolt flange. The non-rebuildable u-joint is typical BMW fare, in that it's some fairly small ZF joint that's staked in place. The yokes don't have snap ring grooves, so even if you went to the trouble of machining out the staking removed the old u-joint and installed a new one, you'd be left with no way to retain the new one unless you had the tools to stake it or went to more trouble to machine snap ring grooves... bit PITA.

The RWD cars use 2 piece driveshafts that have a guibo at the front, a u-joint in the middle with a rubber mounted support bearing right behind it, then a u-joint at the diff end with the same 4 bolt flange. Even blowing the center u-joint wouldn't free up a driveshaft such that it could rip into the gas tank, as the rear section of the shaft would still be supported by the rear joint and the CSB.

The E30 was the last to use the 4 bolt diff flange. Starting with the E31 body (8 series Coupe), BMW went to a 6 bolt diff flange and CV joint at the diff and carried that forward for all subsequent chassis.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpos ... stcount=13
iflytii wrote:
Ran new hard lines under the car, and used a vette FPR/Filter. The FPR/filter nestles nicely in the recess at the front of the seat. It's barely visible (hangs below the rocker about 1/4"), but it's not the lowest point of the car so I'm not worried about scraping it.

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Re: Fantastic V8 swap candidate

Post by Krot84 »

Hi, please write me where you bought the short stacks. Thank you Daniel

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Throttles did arrive the week after the engine, as promised... I've just been delinquent with the pics. The Dinan short stacks are *sweeeeet*.

Also have a lead on a guy on http://www.e30.de who can reflash the stock MSS52 DME to work without the rest of the E39. He also supposedly converts to Alpha-N fuel control... Not sure what to think about that. Don't know if it retains traction control, how it reads vehicle speed (no VSS on later E39's) and a host of other details. I *may* have to double up select sensors and retain the E34 DME to run the gauges.

I received a box of loose hardware with the engine. I need to look through that for the nuts and o-rings that bolt down and seal the TB's to the heads, then get them installed to keep crap out of the engine.

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Those are Dinan pieces that were on my throttles when I bought them.
However...
The Dark Side of Will wrote:Stacks for Weber IDF's apparently work on S62's... direct bolt-on. Good job, BMW, using an established "standard" no matter how unofficial or irrelevant to the engine's operation. Certainly makes things easier for hotrodders.

http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDet ... 1481237582
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

http://s49.photobucket.com/user/T-56/li ... t=3&page=5

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Not mine and not the way I'm going to do it... but inspirational.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=66882

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This setup uses a C6 Vette rear housing, while I have to use the C5 rear housing for trans tunnel clearance.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Baltimore inner harbor, near Ft. McNair:
#potatocam

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

A guy on R3V lent me a RWD crossmember and control arm for research purposes. Here are some pics:

Crossmembers overlapped with the front mounting holes of the RWD unit lined up on the rear holes of the AWD unit:

You can see that the AWD cars have the rack something like SIX INCHES further forward than the RWD cars, which combined with the packaging constraints of the AWD knuckle results in the weird ackerman geometry in the AWD cars.

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Adjacent ball joint bosses:

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More Adjacent ball joint bosses:

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Adjacent engine mount locations:

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Ball joint "disassembled"

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front): 1988 ETM has an ERROR or omission in the A/C Compressor control wiring. The A/C control switch is fed by contacts in the air door sliders which de-energize the A/C when *BOTH* the footwell and dash vent air control sliders are all the way off. The position of the defrost vent slider is irrelevant.


Car: 11/1987 325iX (SN: 2550859)
Symptom: Air Conditioning compressor does not start. The A/C belt was off the compressor when I bought the car; I'm just now jumping into getting the A/C to work.

Troubleshooting log:
Checked high and low pressure cutoff switches (last circuit elements supplying power to the compressor) for voltage - No
Checked A/C control switch (on the center stack) for voltage at pin 4 (WT) - No
Checked fuse 20 for voltage - Yes
Checked C204 pin 7 (GR/BR) - Yes
Checked continuity from C204-7 female side to A/C Control Switch-4 - No
Swore
Tore apart center stack to find and access S230
Found S230 - No white wire
Swore more
Scratched head

The '88 E30 ETM shows that S230 receives current via a large GR/BR wire from C204-7, and has multiple GR/BR branches feeding various HVAC related loads, but also has a white branch feeding the A/C control switch.

Noticed that there was an undocumented branch of S230 sending a green/brown wire to an undocumented two pin connector that plugged into the air door slider assembly (where you slide the knobs to determine how much air comes out of the defrost, dash and footwell vents)
Noticed that the other pin of the undocumented two pin connector had a white wire.

Checked continuity from white wire in undocumented connector to A/C Control Switch pin 4 - Yes. This connector is not shown in the ETM diagrams.

Inspected the air door slider assembly...
There are contacts on both sides of a simple board between the dash and footwell vent sliders. Each slider has a wiper on it which bridges the contacts when it is moved to open the doors and opens the circuit when the doors are closed. The pins in the undocumented connector grip the board, touching both sides of the board, and thus both sets of contacts at once. That way advancing EITHER the dash vent slider OR the footwell vent slider completes the circuit and allows the A/C to operate.

I checked resistance across the dash vent slider contacts. Continuity was intermittent and resistance ranged from a couple of ohms up to 30-60 when there was continuity. Clearly age has dramatically reduced the reliability of this circuit element.

On further analysis of the circuit, it's apparent that the current that powers the A/C compressor clutch has to pass through these undocumented contacts... which is completely crazy. That current *SHOULD* be handled by a relay, while everything that currently handles that current remains a low current device and only acts to operate the relay.

I'm going to jumper the undocumented connector when I reassemble the center stack tomorrow morning. I will also take and post pics then. If I'm lucky my A/C will work. At some point in the future, I'll add a relay to power the compressor clutch and then I should/may be able to reconnect the undocumented connector... although I'll probably have to take the door slider assembly apart to polish the contacts to make them work again. I'm not very interested in doing that, however...

Pics:

The state of center stack tore-apartedness:

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The undocumented connector and connection:

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Dash vent door slider contacts:

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Footwell vent door slider contacts:

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The location of S230 in the harness -- the boxes are the recirculation door motor relays:

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My jumper -- I had to use 12 ga wire, tin the ends and flatten them a bit with pliers, then reflow the solder to get them the right thickness to approximate the board and make strong consistent contact with the pins in the connector:

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