S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I guess I wasn't very clear about that. I have not seen a good reason to remove the oil/water HEX, so I'll keep it. BMW spent money incorporating it into the system and have done hella more validation testing with it than Dinan ever did. Even if the S62 is sensitive to increases in IAT, that's a weak excuse for removing the cooler. As I said, it's a better excuse for insulating the bottom of the plenum.

The bottom of the plenum is a very thin wall aluminum or magnesium casting, so it conducts heat well compared to the plastic upper shell.

People are definitely dumb; or, more precisely, are definitely non-rigorous. I was pushing for temp data on ///M5 board, but the best response I got, even from the guy who runs a machine shop that specializes in sleeving S62's, is that Dinan did it on their race and customer cars. He recounted that radiant heat from the cooler increases IATs... even if true, I don't think removing the cooler is the right way to mitigate that effect.

Bad Idea isn't going to be a track rat, but it'll definitely make it out to Summit Point a few times. I'll install the engine stock and log the temps on a track day, then insulate the plenum and log temps on the next track day. Too easy. That will also tell me if I need the external air/oil HEX as well. I'll be using a Z3M S54 radiator, which drops into an E30. I may need some extra heat rejection capacity at full tilt boogie, which the stock E30 oil cooler would handily provide.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by Aaron »

I didn't think you would remove the OEM cooler, so that's good. I also don't think adding an air/oil is necessary, but we'll see.

No one on the N54 forums has any data either. The best reply I've gotten is because the oil gets hot.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I'll have to look into some kind of data logging setup. I bet there are some interesting things out there.
Ideally I'd like something that can collect OBDII data frames from the ECU/DME, add more data points and write it all to the same file as if it came from the same source.
Obviously oil temp would be super easy to watch. I *believe* there's a temp sensor built into BMW's low oil level switch. Optical brake temps, tire temps, steering angle and suspension position at each corner would be the next items on my list.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by FieroWanaBe1 »

https://www.autosportlabs.com/product/r ... repro-mk3/

I have a very early development of this system. It runs Lua scripts and is extremely open to customization, and is also pretty low cost for what it can do.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

FieroWanaBe1 wrote:https://www.autosportlabs.com/product/r ... repro-mk3/

I have a very early development of this system. It runs Lua scripts and is extremely open to customization, and is also pretty low cost for what it can do.
Dam, looks like a sweeeet product.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Hmmm...
Today I set up some shelves in the back of my dad's garage. I took the 3.07 diff and put it next to the 3.64 diff. It *looks* like they use the same case. I'll have to take the 3.07 apart and look under better light/conditions. Interesting.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Image

The CMM data I had taken in 2014 didn't include the positions of the bolt holes that attach the "snubber" to the crossmember. It turns out that gizmo needs to move as well.

The snubber is #15 here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpar ... Id=31_0020

Image

However, it actually installs with the rubber toward the back of the car instead of pointing up.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Progress, based on snubber mounting measurements:

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Interesting radiator possibility: https://www.chasebays.com/collections/b ... 1670188110

Although being "tucked" I'm not sure it's compatible with A/C.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

PIMA:

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Finally starting to look like something I can really use:

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

And after even more work, I think I have the steering rack, tie rods, rack boots and engine mount towers deconflicted.
Now I need to update the front bulkhead to free up dynamic clearance for the sway bar, but that can wait for another day.

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Finally have the .igs file with the engine mount tower CMM data. I imported into OnShape and did some work. A MUCH cleaner design results.

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by ericjon262 »

I like that much better, fewer parts to assemble should make the assembly way easier.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Next step is to grab an RWD E30 mount arm and the corresponding AWD E30 mount arm. I need to see if I can fit RWD mount locations on the assembly. That will greatly simplify all of the target engine swaps. 24V engines could use E36 mount arms just like RWD 24V swaps do, and 32V swaps could use available aftermarket RWD swap mount arms. I can have the two mount arms CMM'd next to each other to pull off their mount positions relative to each other. I'd be super lucky if they're designed such that I can put both mount locations on one flat piece of steel.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Just found a seller on eBay with both sides of both RWD and AWD mount arms... too easy.

The mount pads tilt toward each other at 20 degrees from horizontal. The engine leans over at 20 degrees. This means that the angle between the block mating surface and the mount mating surface on the left mount arm is 90 degrees. SUPER easy to check that dimension between the two styles of arms. Then I'll drop them off for CMM work so I can add the RWD mount locations to the crossmember.

I may not even need to have CMM work done... since it's 90 degrees, I may just be able to clamp each face down to a flat surface and measure to the other face.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I'll need to pull the airbox and AFM to get a better look, but it looks like the RWD mount arms will interfere with the AWD steering shaft, but probably not the rack itself.

I already knew that the spool valve on the iX rack would interfere with the E53 front diff and had figured out a candidate method for rotating the rack. Rotating the rack will require an "exotic" 3 or 4 joint steering shaft geometry, but that's nothing new in the hot rodding world. It'll just have to reach over the RWD mount arm. I was hoping that only E53 based swaps would need to rotate the rack, but maybe they all will. Feh.
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Was able to get RWD engine mount arm data into a usable form.

This still requires gussets to support the RWD mount locations, but it's a solid start.
I'm getting to the point as which I'll have to add the ball joint blocks on the back sides of the rear transverse vertical bulkheads to make sure that the RWD mount plate gussets fit around them.

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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Any pics of this car been posted yet?
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Re: S62 E30 AWD (Formerly: Fantastic V8 swap candidate)

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

With the E30 rack in its original orientation, the steering shaft will probably go through the left RWD mount arm. As I investigate this packaging, it becomes more obvious why BMW moved the engine mounts. Clearance to the left one was probably the driving factor. On the E30, they pushed the left mount forward of the RWD position. On the E34 they pulled it back. On both of those platforms, BMW then arranged the mounts symmetrically, matching the right side where they had to put it on the left side.

However, on the E53 X5, BMW staggered the mounts. The right mount is forward, the left mount is to the rear. The left mount is moved back to drop under the steering shaft as on the E34, but the right mount is moved forward to clear the axle and six cylinder exhaust like on the E30.

I'm starting to think that I should be looking at E53 mount arms. I had initially rejected that idea because using those arms would require developing a lot more structure for the crossmember due to the left mount being behind the axle. If the options are to use E53 mounts for a bolt-in swap or modify the steering rack for EVERY swap, using E53 mounts sounds like a better option. Also, it only requires adding structure on one side of the engine bay. The added structure can be an additional piece which bolts on the to crossmember and picks up the lollipop bushing mount, which is a nice strong hard point on the body. I just hope the E53 mounts aren't so wide that they interfere with the E30 frame rails.
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