139 RWHP 2point8

The Dark Side of Will · Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:14 pm

There's a discussion currently on FieroRacingList about Alan Hamilton's 139 RWHP 2point8.
I'm going to ask him to come here and talk about it a bit.
I know he has custom long tube headers, but I'm not sure what else. I think that beyond the headers it's mostly stock, but don't quote me on that.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:37 pm

I actually have his dyno plots.

Well some of his older ones. Not sure if he has done more since.

I think a lot of it was tuning. He has multiple dyno runs.

I will be the first one to say IMPOSSIBLE WITH TEH STOCK INTAKE!!!

IT JUST DOESNT FLOW!!!!

Doug Chase · Post by **Doug Chase** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:50 pm

Shaun41178(2) wrote:I actually have his dyno plots.

Yeah, I have some, too. He and I were comparing notes when I built my rally motor.

As far as I know, all he's done is balance, port match (IT rules only allow grinding within 1" of the gasket), and headers. Stock cam.

I don't even think he's reprogrammed the ECM.

Impressive numbers.

emod19 · Post by **emod19** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:08 am

I had a similarly built 2.8 that made 137.4 whp. I had the heads port matched and shaved .020, decked the block, stock intake, built my own headers, no computer mods, and a Crower cam. It was a good running engine. I sold it to some dork who put it in a 84 Phoenix, but never got it running. I should try to buy it back.

Steve

donk_316 · Post by **donk_316** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:21 am

I believe it. You cant tell me just by swapping the fiero intake and fuel injection back onto my 3.4L that i lost 40hp but try arguing that over there...

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:49 pm

I am guessing Alan doesn't want to share?

The Dark Side of Will · Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:00 pm

I guess he didn't feel like signing up.

From an email he sent me:

I'll consider signing up. There's not much to tell. I purchased a set of headers from Steve Hamm. (unfortunately his site is gone). Here are links to pictures:

http://racer.net/itafiero/TechPictures/ ... age_01.htm

My dyno results are here:

http://racer.net/itafiero/DynoResults/

I actually only got 136 HP. I think the 139 was raw with atmospheric adjustments.

From the FieroRacingList :

With the open diff I am getting rear wheel spin in 3rd gear. Yes mostly tight off camber corners but I suspect there are other turns where I don't "feel" the spin and I'm losing 1/100s or more. Examples would be turn 2 at Sears Point and turn 11 at Thunderhill. I have a stock 2.8 with excellent headers that in combination with 225/45x15s were enough to make the situation worse at TH. I had previously been running 245/50x15s. I have also increased spring rates to 400+ (rubbers) and gone down a size in the roll bar (1 1/4 inch to 7/8 inch). So I think my setup is going in the right direction for rear traction.

There isn't much to tell about the HP. I found a guy in, IL I think, that built V6 headers for the J and N bodies. Seemed likely he could build headers for a Fiero and he could. We went with 26 inch primaries and 1/2 inch I think (please correct me if I get this wrong gang). The three primes were collected and fed in to a 2 in to 1 at 2 then 2 1/2 inch out. This gained me 9 pounds of torque from 3000 to 6000. Just what I was looking for.

Previously I had used the trimmed stock manifold which gained me around 5 HP. The FOCOA headers where no better than 10 HP and I was very disappointed. Especially after talking to Phil to find out they had only been designed for the A/T and he didn't finish the development. I can't understand why these people (Fiero aftermarketeers) don't publish dyno numbers against their headers. The only thing I can think of is that it would show that they aren't worth the money!

...

Follow-up on PS. I dynoed at 119 HP stock. (see my dyno pages at http://racer.net/itafiero/DynoResults/ ) so I started with a good stock motor. Besides the headers I've port matched (not much gained) and .4 bump in compression (again not much gained). I run stock chip, stock air filter (well Fram to be precise), stock fuel pressure, and stock timing (distributor). Go figure I'm all IT legal when it comes to the engine.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:51 pm

Thats some weird routing on those headers from STeve Hamm.

I wish his site still worked. I might have payed for a set of headers for a turbo setup from him.

I wonder if there is still a way to contact him. I wonder if he got out of the game?

He also built headers for dohc swaps in fieros.

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:20 am

What's weird about the routing? He chose the most efficient path available. There are also probably some elements of routing with FWD cars in that design, since that's what he started from.

I find the relatively short primary length interesting. Of course it's tuned to work with stock 2.8 cam, which is pretty short duration, right?
I suppose Alan meant 1 1/2" primaries instead of 1/2" primaries.

I think that Michael Smith references a Steve Hamm design on his website, and even has a picture of Steve's DOHC headers.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:34 am

Shaun41178(2) wrote:Thats some weird routing on those headers from STeve Hamm.

I wish his site still worked. I might have payed for a set of headers for a turbo setup from him.

I wonder if there is still a way to contact him. I wonder if he got out of the game?

He also built headers for dohc swaps in fieros.

You have a PM, I am interested in building you a set of turbo headers.

I built a set for my Z34, and will be making them for DOHC Fieros starting next summer.

As for those, they look really good. 26" is way short IMHO, but better than nothing. I would have gone with 35-38" tubes. Furthermore, he HAS to be tuned. I have personally seen what headers to to the ECU, and it isn't pretty. It made the A:F on my Z34 go up and down through the entire run. It looked like a mountain range, going from 9:1 up to 14:1.

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:52 am

Aaron wrote:As for those, they look really good. 26" is way short IMHO, but better than nothing. I would have gone with 35-38" tubes. Furthermore, he HAS to be tuned. I have personally seen what headers to to the ECU, and it isn't pretty. It made the A:F on my Z34 go up and down through the entire run. It looked like a mountain range, going from 9:1 up to 14:1.

How long did you drive the car with headers before you had it dyno'd? Datalogging? What were you BLM's?
What did you select as the tuning RPM for your headers?

What did your AF curve look like before the headers?

Anyone got stock Fiero cam specs handy? 26" primaries would tune for middle RPM if the duration of the exhaust valve was short enough.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:24 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
Aaron wrote:As for those, they look really good. 26" is way short IMHO, but better than nothing. I would have gone with 35-38" tubes. Furthermore, he HAS to be tuned. I have personally seen what headers to to the ECU, and it isn't pretty. It made the A:F on my Z34 go up and down through the entire run. It looked like a mountain range, going from 9:1 up to 14:1.
How long did you drive the car with headers before you had it dyno'd? Datalogging? What were you BLM's?
What did you select as the tuning RPM for your headers?

What did your AF curve look like before the headers?

Anyone got stock Fiero cam specs handy? 26" primaries would tune for middle RPM if the duration of the exhaust valve was short enough.

I probably had been driving it for 8 months to a year before the dyno. I do not know the BLMs, and we did not do any datalogging or tuning.

I do not know, but it was probably pretty decent considering the car did not have many mods.