11 1/4" brake upgrade INFO & SPECS

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:56 pm

I'm looking at getting this upgrade. My question is, what is a reasonable price to have the brackets laser cut? I can't find anyone that will flame cut them. The only shop I can find that will do CNC laser cutting charges $125 an hour. I couldn't imagine it taking an hour to cut out a set of brackets and the spacers (actually I'm getting 2 sets done). However, I don't know anything about how those machines work so maybe it would take a long time.

If anyone here wants a set let me know and I can see about getting extra sets cut.

Post by **eHoward** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:09 pm

Both Will and Jon talked to me at different times about making brackets for the lebaron upgrade. I would contact one or both of them and just buy a finished set.

derangedsheep wrote:I'm looking at getting this upgrade. My question is, what is a reasonable price to have the brackets laser cut? I can't find anyone that will flame cut them. The only shop I can find that will do CNC laser cutting charges $125 an hour. I couldn't imagine it taking an hour to cut out a set of brackets and the spacers (actually I'm getting 2 sets done). However, I don't know anything about how those machines work so maybe it would take a long time.

If anyone here wants a set let me know and I can see about getting extra sets cut.

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:12 pm

I thought they said on Old Europe that they sold all of their brackets. Or was it Sluppy who sold all their brackets? :scratch:

Post by **eHoward** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:46 pm

I don't read over there.

derangedsheep wrote:I thought they said on Old Europe that they sold all of their brackets. Or was it Sluppy who sold all their brackets? :scratch:

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:48 pm

stimpy wrote:Beretta, Grand Am, whatever. Would you feel better if I said Grand Am? I know they're the same fucking car. :knob:

So the caliper is farther out, but is the surface of the piston any larger? Is the caliper itself larger? The rotors themselves have no problem dissipting heat, and they've seemed to do well for me. I'd like the looks of bigger rotors in my wheels, but if there is no complelling reason to want the caliper farther away from my axle it seems like kind of a hair shirt for me.

I want the 12" Wilwoods from HMS :sex:

Same line pressure (pedal effort) generates greater brake torque when caliper is further from rotor axis.

Beretta brakes have same diameter rotor as stock but vented. Calipers have larger pistons, but are IRON and add a few pounds of unsprung weight.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:49 pm

Jinxmutt wrote:If you are lookin for the whole 'race' thing, there are better rotors available for the 'vette swap, better pads, and you can use a MC that was designed to be mated to those parts, where as the Blazer still isn't 'right' as far as I'm convinced. I'm actually considering using the vette MC for my 84 rather than the blazer...

AFAIK, the Blazer and Vette MC's have same ID.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:51 pm

derangedsheep wrote:I'm looking at getting this upgrade. My question is, what is a reasonable price to have the brackets laser cut? I can't find anyone that will flame cut them. The only shop I can find that will do CNC laser cutting charges $125 an hour. I couldn't imagine it taking an hour to cut out a set of brackets and the spacers (actually I'm getting 2 sets done). However, I don't know anything about how those machines work so maybe it would take a long time.

If anyone here wants a set let me know and I can see about getting extra sets cut.

A laser cutter will literally only take a few seconds to whip out a set of those brackets. Most of the time will be in programming. If there's a place that does laser cutting nearby, there sure as heck ought to be a place that does flame cutting.

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:41 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote: A laser cutter will literally only take a few seconds to whip out a set of those brackets. Most of the time will be in programming. If there's a place that does laser cutting nearby, there sure as heck ought to be a place that does flame cutting.

I actually went to 2 places that do flame cutting. I 'borrowed' CAD from Limewire and I printed out the drawings of the brackets that Kohburn put up on Old Europe and took those with me to show them what I wanted. They both told me that it would be hard to do with the equipment that they have and both recommended the same laser cutting shop.

I'm going to try to stop by the laser cutting shop in the morning maybe with the CAD files on a disk and see if I can get an estimate.

Just to be sure, for one Fiero, using LeBaron rear rotors all around (I don't want to make concentric rings), I will need:

(2) front brackets
(2) rear brackets
(8) 0.325" thick spacers
And no holes are tapped or anything

Right? I wasn't sure about tapping any holes because in Zettner's writeup he calls for a tap but I didn't see anything about tapping holes on the Old Europe thread.

EDIT: I looked again on the Old Europe thread and threading is mentioned. I should read more carefully.Are all 4 holes threaded on the brackets? There seems to be some confusion on what they should be tapped for. Looks like the holes that mount to the Fiero knuckle need to be tapped for 7/16"-20 and the holes for the Seville calipers are M12x1.25. Is that correct?

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:43 am

For the front you'll need 4 0.325 spacers. I have no idea what spacers would be required for the rear.

The holes for the bolts that thread into the knuckle must be clearance for 12 mm (I would say drill them with 31/64 if the holes can't be cut when the bracket outline is cut)

The holes in the front to which the caliper attaches might depend on the caliper bolts used. Several applications use the same caliper, but different bolts (metric or English) might be used. For the Camaro/Blazer application it's 7/16-20. Not sure what the Caddy rear calipers take.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:30 am

roughly .325-.375 spacers up front
rear you just need 4 washers for spacers

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:05 pm

I don't know anything about machining so I probably sound like an idiot. Can I just have the machine shop cut the holes without threads and when I get the calipers, have them threaded to match?

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:19 pm

the calipers front what I could find all use the same part# for the caliper bolts so they should all be 7/16-20

with mine i had them cut a 1/2" hole for where it bolts to the stock knuckle - then just drilled and tapped the holes for the calipers

notyourmomma · Post by **notyourmomma** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:49 pm

eHoward wrote: Big deal. If you have trouble pushing the pedal down, work out.

adreniline would be a good accessory.

Doug Chase · Post by **Doug Chase** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:04 pm

eHoward wrote: ...put better rubber...on the car.

This cannot be emphasized enough.

As far as handling goes, this is the single most important part of the car.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:53 am

derangedsheep wrote:
EDIT: I looked again on the Old Europe thread and threading is mentioned. I should read more carefully.Are all 4 holes threaded on the brackets? There seems to be some confusion on what they should be tapped for. Looks like the holes that mount to the Fiero knuckle need to be tapped for 7/16"-20 and the holes for the Seville calipers are M12x1.25. Is that correct?

nope - that was a mistak e- they are all 7/16-20 -- you will need to tap 2 holes on each bracket for the caliper pins - and also retap the holes in the stearing knuckles to bolt the brackets to the car.

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:23 am

Retap the holes in the knuckles?
Why on earth would you do that?

Or do you mean just clean the threads up?

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:52 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Retap the holes in the knuckles?
Why on earth would you do that?

Or do you mean just clean the threads up?

dunno about yours but mine were an off size that I couldn't match - so I used the same 7/16-20 tap and used 7/16-20 bolts to mount the brackets

(plus thats what zetners writeup does so i didn't think to muhc about it)

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:14 am

It think we've established that Zettner's swap didn't have all the though put into it that it might have.
Are the factory bolts too short?

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:28 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:It think we've established that Zettner's swap didn't have all the though put into it that it might have.
Are the factory bolts too short?

well you do have to remove the stock caliper hanger on the front to put the new one in place - but ont he strut its cast in.. so you can't use the stock slider pins to hole the adaptor in place.. have to buy bolts for it - and i think its one of those wacky gm 11mm metrics - can't remember i tapped em like two months ago

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:32 pm

The front spindles are nothing crazy. The front spindles are a 12x1.50mm thread pitch. I used 12x1.50 40mm bolts (look exactly like stock just longer, also used factory style split lock washers). I drilled a 1/2" hole in my brake adapter bracketss. The other holes in the front adapters need to be TAPPED for 7/16-20 as mentioned above.

The fiero rear knuckles are the ones with the Oddball size. When doing the 12" upgrade, those I had to drill and tap to 12x1.75mm to match the front end. I'm not sure how the rear is anymore for the 11.25" as I now have an 88 cradle.