Quaife! 6 speed for $345 new!

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:54 am

I just found that quaife now has their Automatic Torque Biasing differential for the F23, the F35, and the F40!
For $345 you can get a new F40 from E-Gay, plus $100 shipping. I did. The part number for the diff is 57.309.190, $1495. Too bad it costs three times as much.
I'm thinking of ordering another F40.

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:28 pm

Shit, i thought this post was going to be about the quaife being $345.

CincinnatiFiero · Post by **CincinnatiFiero** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:06 pm

Me too lol, I'd be converting my L67 to a 6speed.

FGT · Post by **FGT** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:27 am

I heard a rumor (don't quote me) that those F40 trannys on ebay have defects (rattle), thats why they are so cheap... Let me find the Post from PFFie and GrandAMGT. Please note these are NOT V8Archie trannys (he actually paid almost 3 times as much).

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/0 ... .html#p317

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showpost ... tcount=155
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showpost ... tcount=171

HOW TO: Intstall a 6 speed in a GA GT
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73212

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:59 am

Is the rattle a sign of a reliability problem or is it just noisy?
My Getrag 282 has been rattling louder than my engine for almost a year now. No mechanical problems that I can find.. I've taken apart the tranny twice to look. *shrug* Run it 'til it blows.

FGT · Post by **FGT** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:46 am

Series8217 wrote:Is the rattle a sign of a reliability problem or is it just noisy?
My Getrag 282 has been rattling louder than my engine for almost a year now. No mechanical problems that I can find.. I've taken apart the tranny twice to look. *shrug* Run it 'til it blows.

I have the same issue on my Getrag 282 (well more of a ticking sound). I think the throw out bearing needs to be replaced.

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:36 am

Yes, it rattles, so what? Consider a new T56 for my T/A runs $2400 without bellhousing, and a typical torque biasing diff adds about $600, and the fiero deal comes out at least $1,000 cheaper!!!!! I'm so thrilled with the possibilities, I'm gonna post the spreadsheets!

FGT · Post by **FGT** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:15 pm

Atilla the Fun wrote:Yes, it rattles, so what? .....

:rotflmao:

Atilla the Fun wrote:I'm so thrilled with the possibilities, I'm gonna post the spreadsheets!

Good for you! Whiney little bitch!

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:11 am

Wouldn't that be rattley little bitch? After all, neither I nor my 6 speed actually does any whining.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:49 pm

FGT wrote:
Series8217 wrote:Is the rattle a sign of a reliability problem or is it just noisy?
My Getrag 282 has been rattling louder than my engine for almost a year now. No mechanical problems that I can find.. I've taken apart the tranny twice to look. *shrug* Run it 'til it blows.
I have the same issue on my Getrag 282 (well more of a ticking sound). I think the throw out bearing needs to be replaced.

No, that's different. This is a "oh my god what's that awful sound is your transmission falling apart?" rattle. It doesn't go away until the insides stop spinning. Throwout bearing noise usually stops as soon as you put a bit of pressure on the clutch pedal.

Atilla the Fun wrote:Yes, it rattles, so what? Consider a new T56 for my T/A runs $2400 without bellhousing,

Umm yeah and the T56 has gear ratios that are actually useful.

The F40 drops almost 50% RPM shifting into 2nd. Can you say "useless"?

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:08 pm

Series8217 wrote: The F40 drops almost 50% RPM shifting into 2nd. Can you say "useless"?

The F40 was developed in partnership with Fiat. It may be valid in Fiat's customer base to design a manual transmission for someone's grandmother in Milano, but in the US, grandmothers in San Francisco buy automatics. The only people in the US who buy sticks are enthusiasts and they don't like transmissions designed for granmothers (unless the grandmother in question is the little old lady from Pasadena). The absurd idea that that transmission could be imported from Europe untouched and sell in the American market demonstrates how grossly out of touch GM management is with the customers they're trying to court and is in and of itself a microcosmic demonstration of why GM is having the problems it's having.

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:24 am

The 700R-4 dropd 53% going into second, and that's not a problem, because with a tight converter slipping 400 rpm at WOT, if your rpm after the shift is above your converter's true stall, you will still see the tach drop about 53%. Anyway, you must not be following my build, or you'd see the dyno page showing over 270 torque at just 1600 rpm, and still making more than 270 up at 6800 rpm.
And for those of you running supercharged 3.8s, just don't use first. Those with the DOHC 3.4 or a N* can shift at 6500 and recover near 3500, so no problem with any of those.
Me, I just acquired a non-supercharged 3800-II That will still be in the powerband, after the1-2 shift, even if I turbo it.
Something you guys need to realize is that the greater the drop, the easier it becomes to "bark" the tires going into second, which may be as juvenile as it sounds, but is forever fun so long as nothing breaks.
You get us a 6 speed with T56 ratios for $2400, and I'll be first in line to put it in my Fiero.

Zac88GT1 · Post by **Zac88GT1** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:38 pm

I suspect that the rattleing in the F40 is probably louder and more noticeable when the transmission is installed in the fiero. The reason being that the current trend is to use a nice light aluminum flywheel and a solid hub clutch disc. This doesn't allow for any damping and any backlash in the trans is constantly bouncing back and forth. That being said, i'm running an aluminum flywheel, ebay F40, and solid hub clutch and the rattleing isn't that bad. It's noticeable but it definatly doesn't sound like it's going to rattle itself to pieces. I think people are just complaining because they're paranoid and have nothing better to do. For $400 they shouldn't be complaining.

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:00 pm

I'd add that Fieros tend to have less sound-deadening, and many of us use poly or solid engine mounting.

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:37 pm

The rattleing is normal, most all 282's do it to some degree... its just input shaft noise....

MstangsBware · Post by **MstangsBware** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:19 pm

I heard the same issue about the trans being noisy from a local guy that had one installed. Heard the same thing about the guy on E-bay selling them. I figure they are transmissions that came back for warranty work and got swapped.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:17 pm

Atilla the Fun wrote:The 700R-4 dropd 53% going into second, and that's not a problem, because with a tight converter slipping 400 rpm at WOT, if your rpm after the shift is above your converter's true stall, you will still see the tach drop about 53%.

That's all fine and dandy for a 700R-4 but manual transmissions don't have torque converters.

Anyway, you must not be following my build, or you'd see the dyno page showing over 270 torque at just 1600 rpm, and still making more than 270 up at 6800 rpm.

I'm following your build. You're bringing up other engines (3.4 DOHC, N*) and comparisons to non-gimmicky transmissions like the T56. The F40 may very well be okay for your iron brick truck engine.

And for those of you running supercharged 3.8s, just don't use first.

Second is far too steep to use as a 1st gear..

Those with the DOHC 3.4 or a N* can shift at 6500 and recover near 3500, so no problem with any of those.

Actually, there is a problem with it. I drive a 3.4 DOHC. I think I can make a statement about it. I've run gear ratios like the F40's 1st to 2nd with my old Isuzu tranny. 3500 is too low in the powerband. You really need to be up around 4000 at the beginning of 2nd with that engine. Also, shifting at 6500 to 7000 RPM and getting dropped down to 3500 wreaks havoc on the synchros and gears. One thing that contributes to the Isuzu's 2nd gear death is that large drop in speed; everything has to be dragged down to that RPM when the clutch is engaged.. a light flywheel helps but doesn't solve the problem.

Something you guys need to realize is that the greater the drop, the easier it becomes to "bark" the tires going into second, which may be as juvenile as it sounds, but is forever fun so long as nothing breaks.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about performance.

You get us a 6 speed with T56 ratios for $2400, and I'll be first in line to put it in my Fiero.

I guess you haven't looked at the NSX 6-speed. You can pick up a used NSX 6-speed for $1200 to $2000. WCF sells the kit to install it. The gear ratios are as good as the T56. It also has a limited slip differential.

The installation kit is $3,450 and includes everything. Strong custom axles, a clutch, aluminum flywheel, mounts, shift brackets and cables, etc. Obviously these are all things you'd need for putting any other 6-speed in a Fiero. V8Archie's F40 kit is similarly priced.. and you end up with a huge heavy flywheel, and crappy ratios... and no LSD. Fuck the F40. Until GM at least puts decent ratios in it, its a gimmick transmission so you can say "I have a 6-speed! I chirp the tires going into 2nd!"

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:38 am

Series8217 wrote:Until GM at least puts decent ratios in it, its a gimmick transmission

Considering that GM only puts it in Saabs these days and doesn't even offer it in the G6 anymore, I don't think that's going to happen.

I don't think it's purely a gimmick transmission as it definitely has higher torque capacity than the 282, BUUUT I also think that the ratios are suited to a much more powerful class of engines. If you have 400 ftlbs on tap and launch in 2nd, it would probably be pretty good.

Atilla the Fun · Post by **Atilla the Fun** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:24 am

the 3800SC has enough torque to pull a 2800 pound Fiero around with a 7:1 effective first gear. As for your engine, I'd be a fool to argue. You totally missed the point that the torque converter isn't the reason the 700R4 can get along wuith a 53% drop. It's the torque of the engine it's installed to. All modern engines come with a broad enough powerband to use the MT2. So the MT2 isn't the perfect road-race trans for your 3.4, other DOHC 3.4s start pulling strong around 3500. As for the NSX trans, it has the fatal flaw of being above 2500 rpm at 65 mph. This alone is the reason the MT2 is better for any V8 Fiero in the days of $5/gal gas soon to come. Will a MT2 give me the best possible acceleration my 5.3 Fiero could have? Of course not. But Ithe 5.3 gives me way way more than I need, so I can compromise the gearing enough to be able to enjoy the car.
No doubt the NSX trans would be more fun in some canyons, but you hafta get to and from the canyons. These canyon blasts are the best argument against a 4T65E-HD.
As for the Northstar, I know these engines in their original grandpa cars. These do pull 6500 rpm just fine. They also cruise at 1500 rpm just fine.
There's so much more than the 1-2 shift. Yes, you do it from every stop, but it's less than 1% of your time in your Fiero.
If you wanna rain on my parade, go ahead. Until Will tells me this forum is no place to be telling my fellow Fiero enthisiasts how excited I am, and explaining why I'm excited, I'm gonna keep at it whenever it happens.
I will be amont the first to put a 3.3:1-or-so first gear in my 6-speed. That, or someone regards the NSX 6 speed as a 5 speed plus overdrive and makes a taller 6th gear for it. Then again, that trans was designed for a tiny engine that makes no torque compared to either a N* or my 5.3.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:08 pm

Atilla the Fun wrote: Until Will tells me this forum is no place to be telling my fellow Fiero enthisiasts how excited I am, and explaining why I'm excited, I'm gonna keep at it whenever it happens.

who put will in charge? say whatever you want. Have you not been privy to any of the lowlux threads?