Extreme stripping out of a fiero?

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:39 am

keep the bumpers for the aerodynamics. The turbulence that can be created around the car without the bumpers will have the opposite affect on acceleration as opposed to taking htem off for the weight.

There is a reason nascars run slower when they don't have a hood or a rear bumper or any other body damage.

The Dark Side of Will · Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:40 am

darkhorizon wrote:So, what sort of structural role do the bumpers play? I want to dump them if I can, along with anything else in the front I dont feel I need to keep around.

The bumpers absorb impact energy.

Not sure how they affect torsional stiffness. I'd guess not much.

Modern GM cars have aluminum impact beams. You could swap those in.

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:45 am

I didnt say bumper covers shawn... I meant the actual bumpers themselves.

I might ditch them, seeing how the rear is nearly rusted off anyway.

If I get in a wreck, its going to be at deadly speeds anyway.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:54 am

darkhorizon wrote: If I get in a wreck, its going to be at deadly speeds anyway.

And you could still survive, if you have the impact beams.

http://www.pbase.com/series8217/wreck

fieromadman · Post by **fieromadman** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:32 pm

Aaron, what is with your misconception that DSM's are gutless unless under boost, and also whats with the misconception that they aren't fast till 5 k? Mine will build ten-twelve pounds of boost by 3 k and 20-22 at 4 k. By 6 k it's hit it's peak power with those boost levels on the stock 14b and is already losing steam though. In fact revving it past 6.5 isn't beneficial at all (stock redline on these is 7200 IIRC). I've also often thought it was a decently torquey engine for a 4 banger in low rpm's when not under boost. It's no v-6 and definately no v-8 but comon!

EMX5636 · Post by **EMX5636** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:54 pm

I agree with Fieromadman here. I had a gsx, and while it was pretty useless under 3500rpm, it was a ton of fun when 27psi of 60-1 came on at 4200. It's all in the exhaust wheel and housing. The Galant VR4 that replaced my GSX spools it's T61 to over 25psi by 3500rpm with the 2.3L stroker in it now.

Yea, any kid idiot that bolts a huge turbo to a stock dsm (7.8:1CR for a 1G) isn't going to be at all responsive at lower rpms.

Granted, my 3400 turbo Formula will happily pull me around at sub 2K with a couple psi from the 60 trim.

Now, back on topic for the weight reduction. I pulled out both front and rear crash beams (tied the rear studs together with a DSM strut bar), cut out the front headlight walls, the entire center behind the radiator. Removed the front plastic tire well. Cut out the rear trunk, and wall. Welded in chromoly tubing, and a removable x-frame. Next will be the door beams, but I don't want to get rid of those until I get a full cage inside the car... I can get some pics if you are interested darkhorizon.

Justin

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:48 pm

fieromadman wrote:Aaron, what is with your misconception that DSM's are gutless unless under boost, and also whats with the misconception that they aren't fast till 5 k? Mine will build ten-twelve pounds of boost by 3 k and 20-22 at 4 k. By 6 k it's hit it's peak power with those boost levels on the stock 14b and is already losing steam though. In fact revving it past 6.5 isn't beneficial at all (stock redline on these is 7200 IIRC). I've also often thought it was a decently torquey engine for a 4 banger in low rpm's when not under boost. It's no v-6 and definately no v-8 but comon!

The 5k comment was in regards to the S2000. The DSM's are gutless without boost, and below 3500rpm ont he one I drove. However, we were driving around at 6400ft altitude, so the motor is 21% worse off boost, and spools 500-1000rpm later. But it was god-awful. I hated it.

I' not saying they are gutless all around, once the turbo came on it was a quick, fun to drive car. But before that, it was hell.

Also, it isn't just boost as my car is showing me. I'm not sure if the turbo is breaking in, or the tune is just much better, but it's spooling much quicker now. In 3rd gear or higher, I can get 5psi at 2800rpm. It doesn't really go above 5 until about 3500rpm. My point is, even though I have 5psi, the car is still not pulling very hard at 3k. But once the cams come on at 3500-4000, the car just fucking squats. So it isn't just the boost pressure, the VE plays a vital role. ANd of course, the DSM's is much like mine (3500 and up).

MstangsBware · Post by **MstangsBware** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:39 pm

Don't cut out the door impact beams unless you are making it a track car only. They take alot of the impact and will save you from being smashed if ever T-boned. You can remove the front impact crate and holder and replace with expanding foam so you still have some impact protection. For move weight, remove the panels and get a hole saw and go to town making holes.

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:32 am

I considered the hole saw in the front and extreme rear area.

If I did doors, I would throw the old skins away, and just make a soild door with a fiero skin. So I imagine it would be race only.

My thing is, the bumpers wont really save me from totalling the car out any more than no bumpers would in a mild crash.

I also due to medical conditions, will die at speed no matter what car I am in as long as there are extreme enough sustained gforce.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:21 pm

darkhorizon wrote:as long as there are extreme enough sustained gforce.

...which crushable structures reduce...

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:07 pm

Series8217 wrote:
darkhorizon wrote:as long as there are extreme enough sustained gforce.
...which crushable structures reduce...

It would reduce spikes of gforce, but the overall energy release is what I am worried about.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:26 pm

Overall energy release isn't important at all. I could push you around with the tip of my finger all day and expend a huge amount of energy, but I doubt you would rather me expend much less energy and punch you in the teeth.

(Okay overall energy release is important to some degree, as there's a fixed amount of structure in these cars...but you want to avoid a high impulse)

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:12 pm

The genetic disorder I have prohibits me from doing just about anything fun. Rollercoasters, sports, ect... And as gay as it sounds my car might even be getting too fast for me to race without the 1.5 60's getting to me.

I already cant race my asphalt snowmobile dragster, I have to have someone else run it at the track for me

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:45 pm

Without touching anything structural....

1) Remove the splashguard plastics from the wheel-wells, or at least trim back what isn't completely and utterly necessary.

2) Switch to a REAL lightweight wheel and low-profile tire

3) Remove the spare.

4) Remove all the plastic under the front hood.

5) Tear into the fiero wiring and remove EVERYTHING that isn't Engine, headlights, turn-signals, brake lamps, or hazards. Make sure you chop back all the extra copper, too.

6) Rip up the floor carpetting and sound deadner, and replace with a light coating of RhinoGuard (or similar), taking care to cover any/all exposed wires/conduits with some bolted on light aluminum plating.

7) Replace seats with lightweight racing setup.

Remove power anything; replace with manual everything.

9) Yank out stock rad, have rad shop design/build a smaller 3-core setup. Fill the gaps with some scavanged plastic.

10) Reduce the capacity of your cooling system by gluing foam blocks into your overflow bottle. Also, cut out and remove the entire heating system, and block the outlets with plugs.

11) Remove the entire fuel tank assembly, replace with a smaller fuel cell in the front where your spare used to be; bracket in with aluminum hard-points bolted to any frame.

12) Remove and discard any superfluous fastners (bolts/nuts). If you're worried about vibration/noise from loose sheetmetal (or whatever) halve the fasteners, and pump expanding foam into the dead spaces to act as a glue/deadner.

13) Replace steel coolant pipes with lighter aluminum pipes.

14) Grind excess material off of frame, hub carriers, engine block, transmission, etc. Excess material in this case being casting flash, unused mounting bosses, superfluous webbing etc. My sbc book reports 20lb weight savings from bevelling the edges off an entire cast-iron 350 block and removing spare bosses.

15) Cut holes in any non-essential sheet metal such as strut-towers etc.

16) Remove vent fan and related; hard-lock the diverter to the "defrost" position so that you won't fog up the windows.

17) Replace windows with lexan fakies.

18) Replace rear window with lexan.

19) Smaller battery

20) And finally, if possible, lose 75lbs on a crash diet of raw locusts and ditchwater.

EMX5636 · Post by **EMX5636** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:04 am

Sad thing Mach10, is I think I have already done at least 10 of those things... Haha, Good list though. Don't forget loosing the rear trunk if you can do it, there is a bit of weight you can get rid of there.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:35 am

Mach10 wrote: 14) Grind excess material off of frame, hub carriers, engine block, transmission, etc. Excess material in this case being casting flash, unused mounting bosses, superfluous webbing etc. My sbc book reports 20lb weight savings from bevelling the edges off an entire cast-iron 350 block and removing spare bosses.

There are some race shops that offer full exterior machining of SBC blocks. They say you can have the strength of an aftermarket block at the weight of a stocker... like 40# off a Dart or similar.

EMX5636 · Post by **EMX5636** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:30 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
There are some race shops that offer full exterior machining of SBC blocks. They say you can have the strength of an aftermarket block at the weight of a stocker... like 40# off a Dart or similar.

That's pretty crazy too. I wonder how much you could take off the 60* block doing the same thing? I know there are 3 times more bosses and edges than Fiero guys ever use. Maybe I'll have to do some weighing if I can get my hands on another gen 2 or 3 block...

On that note, you think there is any "safe" weight reduction on a Getrag or Muncie trans? I have a spare Getrag that I could probably look at, and a Muncie in my car. I know it wouldn't be as much as the block, but do you think another 10-15lbs or so is possible off the trans?

If I could get 40-50lbs off the engine and trans assembly, it'd make the weight of my turbo setup almost non-existant, and be lighter than the stock 2.8L because of the Gen3 aluminum heads. Or I guess I could always just go Ecotec, but I like my torque damn it! :rotflmao:

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:22 am

Yah there's no point in trying to save weight on the 60*, if weight is a primary concern, then it is a bad place to start. Same as the SBC (For sub 2000hp builds). Go with the 3.6 DOHC. Lighter than a 2.8l, more torque, and more power stock than a 2.8l will produce turbocharged.

In fact, if you're building anything, the 2.8l is a bad place to start. It doesn't really do anything well.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:31 am

The 4 & 5 speeds are the lightest transmissions available for the Fiero... not much room for weight savings unless you start leaving gears on the workbench. Arguably, they should be heavier for the sake of reliability.

The 60 degree V6 isn't a bad platform for reasonably lightweight power on the cheap. Probably better than the 4.9 due to ease of install in a Fiero. Non-VVT 3500's can be had for $500, make over 200 HP and are lighter than the 2.8. It's been shown that on the Gen III engines, well over 300 whp is easily achieved with a turbo.

THE PUNISHER · Post by **THE PUNISHER** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:45 am

There is an Aluminum Space frame (for a fiero) sitting at Alcan in kingston On. It shares a storage container with 1 of the 2 SHO powered mercury sables (all aluminum) that ran the 1 lap of america in the early 90's. The sable is 1000Lb less then a standard sable , has cobra brakes and wheels..ect

No you can't buy it, have pics of it or get the name of anyone in the know.

the project was overseen by a good family friend and engineer (both the sable and the Fiero project) the car can never be licensed for road use as it is not crash tested (same as the sable) The same family friend developed the Alu-power battery for commercial use.

It's still there last time I asked, along with the sable and a slew of FWD aluminum sub frames. I mentioned this before on Old Europe and got a slew of emails from loser fiero people who wanted to know names and what not.

It's been dinged in the rear by a forklift , but they still have it with no plans of getting rid of it. The chassis was on display at the "world of tomorrow" exhibit at disney world in the late 80's , then sent to a subsidiary texttile company , then back to alcan for storage.

the kind of odd thing like the prototype Aluminum Block/ heads and intake (2.8V6) I got years ago from a retired GM engineer for $300...

I don't know what I trip on this crap... fiero's Suck.

I got an email as recent as last year from someone in the fiero community telling me they had a "right" to know about the car and wanted names (demanded) They went so far as to call me on several occasions.

The only right such faggots have is to gargle my Cum, population paste, baby batter.