??? about idea.

[Atilla the Fun]

Hey guys,
It occurs to me that r a d a r and L i d a r both rely on something reflecting off your car. It also occurs to me that not much reflects off a deep-pile black carpet. So, are fuzzy cars the next trick? I think it would quickly become i l l e g a l to cover your paint with carpet, but for a while, could it help those who can't drive 55?

[cactus bastard]

I doubt that would ever catch on..
There are radar absorbing / scattering paints out there.

[Blue Shift]

Look up "iron ball" paint - it's a type of radar absorbing material that they applied to the F-117 and such. Metallic or semiconductor (that is, having high electrical resistance, but still conductive nonetheless) particles convert radio energy into heat energy, reducing the amount of reflected RF that goes back to be picked up by the radar receiver. I really doubt it'd actually reduce your reflection enough to matter, made worse by the fact that 1.) we don't have the added benefit of surfaces designed to deflect whatever RF energy does reflect off in a direction that doesn't lead back to the radar system, and 2.) you can't paint every part of the car with anyways.

As for lasers, get a bright laser and try shining it at the darkest, blackest, roughest object you can, and you'll see you can still clearly see the dot... So can the device since it's sensor is watching through good optics.

The only realistic chance of defeating either system is active jamming, which has been made to work in a vehicle mounted system. Legality is another matter...

[Blue Shift]

Radar is harder to pinpoint you with, and easier to jam, though you're breaking more laws simultaneously...

I read a story about how these physics majors in college back in the days got a BIG HUGE energy storage capacitor and put it in the trunk of this 70's pimp cruiser. They had it connected to a spark gap inside a tuned cavity set to resonate at the local police radar frequency, probably like X band in those days. So they'd charge this capacitor (they said it sounded like a shotgun going off when fired) and the cavity would "ring" at the frequency of local radar (amongst other things), and a powerful burst of radar would come out the waveguide pointed forward. They claimed to have tried it out on a cop running radar, and as they drove by, they saw him looking at the radar gun in obvious confusion, and trying to figure out what was wrong with it... Pwn3d.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Hey guys,
It occurs to me that r a d a r and L i d a r both rely on something reflecting off your car. It also occurs to me that not much reflects off a deep-pile black carpet. So, are fuzzy cars the next trick? I think it would quickly become i l l e g a l to cover your paint with carpet, but for a while, could it help those who can't drive 55?

In order to reflect radar energy, the surface has to be conductive. Maybe covering your car in steel wool would work.

If you know what wavelength the laser is, it's not hard to paint the car an absorbing color.

Probably the best defence against radar on a Fiero, Corvette or other composite bodied car would be to apply wire mesh inside the body panels in a radar deflecting shape. As long as the holes in the mesh are smaller than the wavelength of the radar, the radar will act as though the mesh is solid. Probably the strongest radar reflection from the front of a Fiero (at least when the headlights are down) is the huge front impact beam which presents a broad flat surface basically perpendicular to the radar beam. With the headlights up, the headlight dishes are probably the biggest reflection.

[Atilla the Fun]

Hmm. Educational. Thank you. I dismissed paints because of cost. Used carpet can be had for free, anywhere in the country. I know because dad is a consultant being paid to research the recycling of used carpet.
So, about the bumper. In theory of course, if a guy was to swiss cheese the bumper beam, for weight savings, that would be a good thing for reducing reflectivity?
I'm not going to try any of this. 2 years ago, yes. But since I pled guilty to a charge of reckless driving , I've slowed way down. And I find it saves on gas, too! BTW, never ever plead guilty to a charge of reckless driving. I thought it would mean I could just pay the $587 fine, take some points against my otherwise clean license, and get back to my life. Nope. Better to work a deal with the D.A. Now I have, in their eyes, a history of road rage. But if that was true, why didn't it show up in the previous years I've been driving? It wasn't rage, but now I'm stuck with the record saying it was.

[Aaron]

I'm amazed how much effort you guys are going through, just to avoid a radar hit. Do you not think he can just pull you over and write you on careless or reckless based on a visualization of your speed?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Go stuff the omnipotent cop bullshit.

Do you not think that a defendant can ask for a jury trial?

[CincinnatiFiero]

.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Hmm. Educational. Thank you. I dismissed paints because of cost. Used carpet can be had for free, anywhere in the country. I know because dad is a consultant being paid to research the recycling of used carpet.
So, about the bumper. In theory of course, if a guy was to swiss cheese the bumper beam, for weight savings, that would be a good thing for reducing reflectivity?
I'm not going to try any of this. 2 years ago, yes. But since I pled guilty to a charge of reckless driving , I've slowed way down. And I find it saves on gas, too! BTW, never ever plead guilty to a charge of reckless driving. I thought it would mean I could just pay the $587 fine, take some points against my otherwise clean license, and get back to my life. Nope. Better to work a deal with the D.A. Now I have, in their eyes, a history of road rage. But if that was true, why didn't it show up in the previous years I've been driving? It wasn't rage, but now I'm stuck with the record saying it was.

Road Rage is the new sexual harrassment.

If the holes in your swiss cheese bumper are smaller than the wavelength of the radar, the radar will still "see" the bumper as solid.
If the holes are larger than the wavelength, then the radio waves can get through the bumper. The first metal object behind the bumper will reflect the radar instead.

[Atilla the Fun]

yeah, but in trying to find myself a wife, I'd rather have my bad driving record than any history of sexual harassment.
I was guilty of reckless driving, and I knew I was guilty. I felt guilty. I was doing worse than speeding. But the points and mega-huge fine woulda been punishment enough.

[Blue Shift]

I think you're going to have a REALLY hard time passively deflecting or absorbing RF, though the idea of a passive deflection array under a RF transparent body is a cool idea... The mesh idea is a proven concept - look at any skeletonized radar dish, or the mesh covered window of your microwave. Still though, the entire F-117 has every last surface coated in the best RAM that money could buy at the time, and sacrifices in aerodynamic qualities (the F-117 can supposedly not fly without powerful real time computer control) were made to maximize the passive deflective capabilities of its surfaces. It still shows up about like what a small bird would, they say. They've made significant advancements in the more recent F-22, including computer modeling complex enough to craft the thing out of curved shapes, and still get the deflecting abilities needed to be stealth, not to mention all the classified bits that the public doesn't know about, which I suspect employs a bunch of passive and active electronics/signals tricks as well.

And none of it works for Laser, which is pretty much standard now... Best bet for that is active jamming, which has been made to work in systems available to the consumer, though only in states that won't cart you off to jail immediately just for having it. Still, when a perfectly good laser system refuses to work one ONE car, somebody is going to wonder WTF is going on.

In the end, you only have to be smarter than the cop/system. I escaped twice (confirmed) without consequence in my 92HP, 3 speed auto Fiero. Once, a CHP car piled up on my rear bumper at 90 MPH, at which point I shouted "HOLY SHIT!" and braked as hard as I could, at which point he moved over into the lane to the right, pacing me as we were both at near maximum braking... Then he dropped behind me again once I was below the limit and stopped braking - I figured I was done... At which point I crept up in front of a big rig to my right that was there, signaled, and got over riiiiiiight in front of the truck... I saw the cop hit his steering wheel and make some sort of pissed off gesture, then go flying off to pull somebody else over going like, 75, to make it look like he meant to do that. FAIL.

In episode 2, I was rolling through the city I worked in, at which point a city cop weaved through traffic and got on my bumper, and started radioing in - my tags were out of date, oops. We were coming up to a stoplight so I made my last gamble, and brisky, but safely, switched one lane left - the turn lane - as we were all rolling to a stop. He was stuck in the straight only lane, and put his left blinker on and nosed over to wedge in behind me... At which point it was all up to the lights... His light came up green first, and after sitting there for a minute or two, conceded defeat, and went hauling ass off. FAIL.

There were 3 other incidents where I got tickets, two of them moving violations, and got out of all 3 of them in court, by making use of extensions, Trial by written declaration, and Trial De Novo... You just have to think a little and be willing to concede way too much time and effort to fight back... I have a clean record to this day.