What do you guys think of this Fiero?

[AkursedX]

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum4/HTML/054146.html

http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... =5&t=17319







So, I don't know how many people have seen that I have my Fiero for sale on the other board. My main reason for having it up is because I want to get more involved in auto-x and track days. I'm not looking at doing anything competitive, but I like doing these kind of events much more than drag racing. Going fast in a straight-line doesn't do much for me anymore.

Now my current 3800-turbo really isn't designed for auto-x and track days. The fact that it's an auto, and has way too much power for such a short wheelbase, it just won't do. Plus, deep down, I really don't want to sell my Fiero. It has a lot of sentimental value to me.

I considered getting another car for track duty. My ideal car for this purpose would be an '88 Fiero with a 4speed manual and a 3400 or 3800na swap. I've talked to some people about a MK2 GTI, an S5 FC RX7, and a base '88 coupe. In the end, I realized that learning a whole new car, or building a car from the ground-up just wasn't feasable due to family reasons. I spend a lot of time essentially being a single-parent with my son as my wife and I work different schedules and it cuts into a lot of garage-time and budget.

So, I decided that if I could sell my Fiero, I could buy a nice manual car to have fun with and still have time and funds to do what I want.




So, this brings me to EMX's Fiero. I saw it pop up on .nl a again about a week ago. It's an '88, has a 3400, upgraded suspension, bigger brakes, and a turbo. From pictures, this car looks pretty darn close to being track-ready and darn-near what I would expect to be near my ideal track car. With the current mods, and all my spare Fiero parts, plus my above-average knowledge of Fieros in general that this car would make a great companion to my current Fiero. I think this is the only way that I'll be able to keep my current Fiero and have a track car too.

I was wondering what some of the people on this board felt about a car like this. I don't know about the Haltech. I'm sure I could learn it, but I might possibly consider switching back to a GM harness and using an OBD2 computer and HPTuners to tune it as I'm more familiar with that and I'd have Darth Fiero do some work on it so it's done right and reliable. Other than that, I would probably only make some small changes here and there.

I have to say that I'm really excited about the prospect of getting this car and that me and EMX will be able to work something out. I'm sure this car has sentimental value to him and I'd like to make sure that his car goes to a good home and gets used in a good way.

[Jinxmutt]

I know its been through many hands, but as far as I can tell, that decklid is off of my old car and is completely molded in, top and bottom... I haven't seen another one that had the bottom finished off as complete as that one was. Though it did have some issues on the inside of the mustang scoop, it wasn't visible with the mesh in place.

[Aaron]

That car won't be competitive at all in AutoX, it'll get annihilated. The motor puts it in a very, very fast class. It was SM2 when I was racing, and the fastest cars were running SM2. I had the power, I had the quickest accelerating car on the track by some gap. But past the first corner, I was getting rocked by stock Miatas. I could not combat the understeer, unless I used the lift-off oversteer, which would slow me even further down. The slow steering ratio, crappy brakes, it was a disaster. Of the 100 or so cars running, I was third to last. And that was in every class, I was about 7 seconds slower than the next slowest car in my class. All on a 45 second course.

You'd be better off buying a stripped out, early gen Miata if you actually want to be competitive. That or a Camaro, my Dad's car rocked its class! One of these days I'm going to take my Jeep. It won't be competitive really, but it'll be a lot of fun!

[The Dark Side of Will]

AutoX != Track

Doesn't matter what you bring to open track days, as long as you have fun.

I do agree with what Aaron said about Fieros in AutoX to some extent... it's difficult to make a Fiero competitive in AutoX, and requires very specific, well thought out modifications. However, with *any* class based motorsport, you pick your class *first* and mod the car to suit. If you mod the car the way you like it and run in whatever class it happens to fit, you're almost guaranteed to not be competitive.

[AkursedX]

I agree with both Will and Aaron about the AutoX failure that would ensue. Fortunately we have a group in the area that runs event to where they have an un-classed amateur section where you don't have to worry about points or classes. You just got out and have fun and see where you end up against FTD.

I don't know how many autoX events I would do each year, but I know I would get at least 2 open-track days each year. Usually at Gingerman and Grattan.

I'm only competitive against myself. I always like to run just a little bit quicker each time I go out and have fun. If I wanted to be competitive in any kind of racing, I would NOT be driving a Fiero.

I'm still not 100% on buying this car, but I'm getting closer. I'm thinking that this might even get power-steering added on which would make tight AutoX courses much more fun.

[Aaron]

So long as you understand that, go for it! I had a blast running my Fiero.

Now that being said, I think the 3800 turbo is a better engine choice. I think Will is always posting a quote to this effect, "If you have traction at the end of the longest straight, you don't have enough power." Even at the same power levels, the 3800 will be a much better choice than the 3400. It may weigh more, but power will come on faster and smoother, and it'll be more reliable. I'd say save yourself the hassle and financial hit, and fix your car to what you want it to be. Another benefit is you don't have to re-engineer what is no doubt a hacked up Fiero. Not saying EMX did it, but the only Fiero I've seen that hasn't been mutilated was completely stock, and the first owner sold it because it just died one day.

[befarrer]

I run autoX in my Quad 4 Fiero, I think the last thing I would want is a Turbo Heavy V6 Fiero, I dont know about the course's there, but here we have a smaller area, and cars like subaru's and all the other factory, and aftermarket turbo cars barely get spooled up on the longest straights here. A heavy V6 will make understeering worse, and with lots of power, even worse yet. I have been able to keep up with BMW's and the like with my Fiero, I have stock 86 suspension with only 17" rims, and poly bushings. I had a guy who drove a turbo MR2 (2nd gen), and his review of my Fiero was that power was good, brakes have no feel and randomly lock up, steering is very heavy even when moving, and the steering ratio is horrible. Said handling was about the same as his, if not less understeer. I was not running good tires either, $90 Sceptors in the rear, and Falkien ZE912 cheepo's in the front.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Won't be a good autocross car? You guys crazy? The fiero handles like its on rails!! put on a good set of tires and shox and it will work ever modern day cars with no problems. This is an 88 so it has the Lotus suspension and the better brakes so it has to stop so much better!! /sarcasm

In truth, I think this could be a good play car. Something to tool around in, and just have some fun. I would gut it, since its sort of already hacked up a bit to make it as light as possible. This wouldn't be something to go out and with the wife in. Thts what your other fiero would be for, or your VW or your Suburban if you still have it. This car would be good if you just want to hit a course, or hit the streets in for short bursts of fun.

The 3400 engine isn't bad. And since the swap is already done, a 3500 would be a straight drop in. Hell its already using a 3500 intake on it. 3500 has piston oil squirters too on two of the cylinders. Plus they are cheap to get if it blows up. The 3400 breathes very well, and can make good power even on low boost. I have seen dynos of 350 whp with around 11 psi or so of 3400 swaps in cavaliers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibU1k8UZoo


Be prepared to spend a lot of time into getting this how you want it. I bought kohburns car on here site unseen and he did describe the car well, but there were a lot of things I would have done differently if I had seen it first. Pics don't always show everything. I know you know that though. Not only that, but I already had a project car so mine took a backseat and I eventually lost interest in it.

3400's n/a in fieros have been known to do low 14's relatively stock and I think someone with a 3400 even did a 13 second qtr mile.

[AkursedX]

So long as you understand that, go for it! I had a blast running my Fiero.

Now that being said, I think the 3800 turbo is a better engine choice. I think Will is always posting a quote to this effect, "If you have traction at the end of the longest straight, you don't have enough power." Even at the same power levels, the 3800 will be a much better choice than the 3400. It may weigh more, but power will come on faster and smoother, and it'll be more reliable. I'd say save yourself the hassle and financial hit, and fix your car to what you want it to be. Another benefit is you don't have to re-engineer what is no doubt a hacked up Fiero. Not saying EMX did it, but the only Fiero I've seen that hasn't been mutilated was completely stock, and the first owner sold it because it just died one day.

Changing my 3800 to a manual is a lot more than the typical manual swap. First off, I'd probably research the crap out of the F23 swap as it's been proven to hold good power, but involves a lot of custom work. Then there's the matter of shift cables and exhaust and turbo interference. I'm pretty sure There would need to be some re-working there. It would probably be more expensive than buying this new Fiero. Sure I could probably sell my rebuilt trans to recoup costs, but I'm really not interested in that route.

Plus, even at low boost, this car has much more power than what I would like on the track.

[AkursedX]

I run autoX in my Quad 4 Fiero, I think the last thing I would want is a Turbo Heavy V6 Fiero, I dont know about the course's there, but here we have a smaller area, and cars like subaru's and all the other factory, and aftermarket turbo cars barely get spooled up on the longest straights here. A heavy V6 will make understeering worse, and with lots of power, even worse yet. I have been able to keep up with BMW's and the like with my Fiero, I have stock 86 suspension with only 17" rims, and poly bushings. I had a guy who drove a turbo MR2 (2nd gen), and his review of my Fiero was that power was good, brakes have no feel and randomly lock up, steering is very heavy even when moving, and the steering ratio is horrible. Said handling was about the same as his, if not less understeer. I was not running good tires either, $90 Sceptors in the rear, and Falkien ZE912 cheepo's in the front.

I hear what you are saying. I have been talking with Darth Fiero about things that might be done, and going back to n/a is a very likely possibility. I really don't like boosted engines on the track. The car that I had the most fun in was an 8v '84 Jetta coupe.

What's the weight of your Fiero? I think this Fiero, minus the trunk and minus the turbo wouldn't be all too heavy. I'm almost certain the 3400 is lighter than the 2.8.

If I were to buy this, I think the f-body power steering rack setup like WCF or Rickady88Gt has would find it's way onto this car. I really think that would make an ENORMOUS difference in how much fun the car would be in auto-x. I hate the Fiero's stock steering with a passion.

[AkursedX]

Won't be a good autocross car? You guys crazy? The fiero handles like its on rails!! put on a good set of tires and shox and it will work ever modern day cars with no problems. This is an 88 so it has the Lotus suspension and the better brakes so it has to stop so much better!! /sarcasm

Oh yeah, nothing can stop the Fiero in teh twisties!!!!! *sigh*. I'm 100% confident that my 140hp Jetta Sportwagen diesel would wipe a stock '88 Fiero in autox or roadcourse.

In truth, I think this could be a good play car. Something to tool around in, and just have some fun. I would gut it, since its sort of already hacked up a bit to make it as light as possible. This wouldn't be something to go out and with the wife in. Thts what your other fiero would be for, or your VW or your Suburban if you still have it. This car would be good if you just want to hit a course, or hit the streets in for short bursts of fun.

That's what I'm thinking. I am pretty much happy with everything on my current Fiero which means that I don't have anything to work on right now. My Jetta is my daily, and I'm really trying to NOT mod it as I'm trying to be a more responsible adult/parent. I traded in my Tahoe and GTI, for the Jetta, so I have open space again.

The 3400 engine isn't bad. And since the swap is already done, a 3500 would be a straight drop in. Hell its already using a 3500 intake on it. 3500 has piston oil squirters too on two of the cylinders. Plus they are cheap to get if it blows up. The 3400 breathes very well, and can make good power even on low boost. I have seen dynos of 350 whp with around 11 psi or so of 3400 swaps in cavaliers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ibU1k8UZoo

I really like the 3400 and 3500 engines. I have an extra '88 cradle and before I saw this car, it was my intention to put a 3400 with a 4-speed muncie on it and eventually put it in another Fiero (hence why this car is so appealing to me). I honestly think I would drop the turbo setup though. I'm not a fan of boosted cars on the track. But I'd hold reservation on that until I actually drive the car.

Be prepared to spend a lot of time into getting this how you want it. I bought kohburns car on here site unseen and he did describe the car well, but there were a lot of things I would have done differently if I had seen it first. Pics don't always show everything. I know you know that though. Not only that, but I already had a project car so mine took a backseat and I eventually lost interest in it.

This is the main reason why I haven't committed to this car already. Buying a car sight-unseen requires a lot more questions and close scrutiny of pictures. EMX has been very open and helpful through the process. He even shot a couple of walk-around and start-up videos for me.

This would be my new project car and I'd take my time getting things done to my liking. I don't even know if it would see the street this year. I'd probably run it at my club's September track day at the earliest.

3400's n/a in fieros have been known to do low 14's relatively stock and I think someone with a 3400 even did a 13 second qtr mile.

A high 13/low 14 second car is what I'd consider for my ideal track-Fiero's power level. That is based on my driving-skill and comfort level with a Fiero's handling capabilities.

[Emc209i]

I give it one month before it's sitting in the driveway like the rest of his crippled cars.

[AkursedX]

I give it one month before it's sitting in the driveway like the rest of his crippled cars.

It's a pity. I thought I had worked out a deal with the seller and I had given him a deposit. I was working out logistics with my brother-in-law and when I checked my e-mail again, I saw that my deposit was refunded and the seller told me that he received an offer locally for full asking price. I don't blame him for selling it as it was $500 more than we agreed upon, but I do feel it would have gone into better hands.....

[Emc209i]

What are you gonna do though.... The car is 100% fucked. It does look very rough from the pictures Rick posted on piffle. The paint looks horrible, the front scoop is pretty rigged, and the interior looks outright uncomfortable. Makes me want to pull my '88 out of storage and do it up.

I will enjoy seeing how a 3500 stands up to a "torture test".

[slowpoke]

I don't mean to hate on the seller, but what's the point in giving him a deposit if he is going to sell it out from under you any way?

I don't know what the original asking price for that car was but from what I've heard third gen camaros and c4 vettes are pretty cheap and make decent track cars. I've also heard that both are better platforms than a Fiero.

Either way, I hate to see you sell the Fiero that you've already put so much time into.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Cleaned out some trash...

[AkursedX]

I don't mean to hate on the seller, but what's the point in giving him a deposit if he is going to sell it out from under you any way?

I don't know what the original asking price for that car was but from what I've heard third gen camaros and c4 vettes are pretty cheap and make decent track cars. I've also heard that both are better platforms than a Fiero.

Either way, I hate to see you sell the Fiero that you've already put so much time into.

I had an '88 coupe that I sold to Blackrams awhile ago. He gave me an offer below my asking price and gave me a deposit. Two days later, I got a full-offer, but I turned it down due to the fact that I already agreed with another guy. But, like I said before, oh well. there's not much I would have been able to do about it anyways.

I offered him 3k and the asking price was 3500. In reality, it's probably good that I didn't get it because I estimated that I would probably be throwing another ~4000 at it to get it "track ready" to my standards.

I'm taking it as a sign that I should keep my Fiero up for sale and get out of the game. I'm going to try to make a couple of walk-around vids this weekend and put it up for sale on a couple more sites.

[slowpoke]

I know what you mean. But for that kind of money you could surely get a c4 could'nt you? Then again, I know some people don't care for c4 corvettes.

[Emc209i]

I'm taking it as a sign that I should keep my Fiero up for sale and get out of the game. I'm going to try to make a couple of walk-around vids this weekend and put it up for sale on a couple more sites.

That's probably a smart move. If my '88 hadn't been my first car I would have sold everything Fiero related I owned last year. There are so many better cars in existence, and the market is saturated. Unfortunately, I won't let myself pull a "I sold my first car for $3000, and now I can't find another for $10,000 in 2030", so I hang onto everything and continue to be involved. For now at least. Best of luck on your sale.

[AkursedX]

That's probably a smart move. If my '88 hadn't been my first car I would have sold everything Fiero related I owned last year. There are so many better cars in existence, and the market is saturated. Unfortunately, I won't let myself pull a "I sold my first car for $3000, and now I can't find another for $10,000 in 2030", so I hang onto everything and continue to be involved. For now at least. Best of luck on your sale.

I understand where you're coming from. My Fiero holds a lot of sentimental value to me as well and I have also acquired a garage full of spare parts over the years. I have a feeling that eventually I will just pick up another 88-Fiero and mod that one too. I just don't see someone forking over $9000 for my GT.