McLaren F1 Owner Q+A

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/to ... 3&t=116008

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/to ... 0&t=116303

McLaren F1 Forum recommended in the above (actual F1 owners post here):
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbullet ... .php?f=332

[The Dark Side of Will]

Hilarious pic:



Also: thread from above forum with pictures of Enzo and F1 together:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbullet ... p?t=257750

[Atilla the Fun]

I seem to remember that the F1 used Goodyear 315/45R17 rear tires. Last week I spent an hour searching, but couldn't find either any tires in that size, not even from Goodyear, Pirelli or Michelin, nor could I find any confirmation of the size.
If anyone can help, I have a good use for that bizarre size of tires.

[The Dark Side of Will]

In one of the posts above, the owner says that Goodyear still makes them, but only sells them to McLaren. Vipers used to use 315/35-17's, didn't they? As well a 335/30-18's.

[Atilla the Fun]

Early Vipers were 335/35R17, same as the F40.
The 315/45R17s are about 2 inches taller.
Goodyear not selling to anyone but McLaren is evil, wrong, and has cost them my business.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Has it occured to you that perhaps McLaren *paid* Goodyear to develop tires specifically for that car?

If you paid a supplier to develop something specifically for your product, would you want them to profit by selling it to someone else (who may be in competition with you)? Would you want your competition to have access to developments you've paid for?

*ANY* supplier who works with *ANY* high level professional motorsport team (NASCAR, F1, etc) has signed NDA's, non-compete agreements, etc. for the priviledge of doing business. Head porters, for example, may have a different port for each team, each developed independently, each development effort paid for independently. He won't be able to sell development work one team paid for to another team (or to us unfortunately).

That's the way business works.

Do you object to patents?

[Atilla the Fun]

OMG Are you serious?!?!
This is probably your most thought-impaired week ever! Maybe you've had too much caffiene?
I seriously hope you return to the normal you I "knew" until a few days ago.
Spend a few minutes on tirerack.com looking up performance tires. You'll find some sizes of P-Zeros and Pilot Sports offered with 4 and 5 different versions, With footnotes like "Porsche" and "Audi".
How is Goodyear any different from Pirelli and Michelin? You think Goodyear deserves an exemption that Pirelli and Michelin don't?
And you can't patent a size. Compound, yes. Belting, depends. Tread pattern, yes.
Maybe F1 owners are too stupid to want P-Zeros or Pilot Sports, for maybe $15 per tire less than the Goodyears? Hardly matters.
Even so, to be profitable, you must sell as many tires as possible, in each size. Pirelli is doing it. So's Michelin.
If McLosers wants an exclusive tread, fine. But the carcass is most of the cost, and a 28.16" tall tire that fits a 17x11 rim would sell really well.
Do you realize that 40% of all tires sold in America are house brands, using big-name carcasses, with not-famous treads and sidewall names? It's true.

[jelly2m81]

What does it matter? It's not like you can afford tires for a McLaren F1 anyway. If I am wrong which I doubt and you really want them,contact McLaren and get a set.

[Indy]

OMG Are you serious?!?!
This is probably your most thought-impaired week ever! Maybe you've had too much caffiene?
I seriously hope you return to the normal you I "knew" until a few days ago.
Spend a few minutes on tirerack.com looking up performance tires. You'll find some sizes of P-Zeros and Pilot Sports offered with 4 and 5 different versions, With footnotes like "Porsche" and "Audi".
How is Goodyear any different from Pirelli and Michelin? You think Goodyear deserves an exemption that Pirelli and Michelin don't?
And you can't patent a size. Compound, yes. Belting, depends. Tread pattern, yes.
Maybe F1 owners are too stupid to want P-Zeros or Pilot Sports, for maybe $15 per tire less than the Goodyears? Hardly matters.
Even so, to be profitable, you must sell as many tires as possible, in each size. Pirelli is doing it. So's Michelin.
If McLosers wants an exclusive tread, fine. But the carcass is most of the cost, and a 28.16" tall tire that fits a 17x11 rim would sell really well.
Do you realize that 40% of all tires sold in America are house brands, using big-name carcasses, with not-famous treads and sidewall names? It's true.

FFS dude, calm down. Why is Goodyear to blame when Pirelli doesn't even make anything in that size? Maybe they should become the whipping boy here . Clearly if there was any kind of a market for tires that size, they would be on the market. But you have to ask yourself when the last time was that a high performance car wearing a wide tire was released with a 17" wheel...It's been a while.

BTW, Michelin also sold tires for the F1 back in the day.

[Indy]

OMG Are you serious?!?!
This is probably your most thought-impaired week ever! Maybe you've had too much caffiene?
I seriously hope you return to the normal you I "knew" until a few days ago.
Spend a few minutes on tirerack.com looking up performance tires. You'll find some sizes of P-Zeros and Pilot Sports offered with 4 and 5 different versions, With footnotes like "Porsche" and "Audi".
How is Goodyear any different from Pirelli and Michelin? You think Goodyear deserves an exemption that Pirelli and Michelin don't?
And you can't patent a size. Compound, yes. Belting, depends. Tread pattern, yes.
Maybe F1 owners are too stupid to want P-Zeros or Pilot Sports, for maybe $15 per tire less than the Goodyears? Hardly matters.
Even so, to be profitable, you must sell as many tires as possible, in each size. Pirelli is doing it. So's Michelin.
If McLosers wants an exclusive tread, fine. But the carcass is most of the cost, and a 28.16" tall tire that fits a 17x11 rim would sell really well.
Do you realize that 40% of all tires sold in America are house brands, using big-name carcasses, with not-famous treads and sidewall names? It's true.

FFS dude, calm down. Why is Goodyear to blame when Pirelli doesn't even make anything in that size? Maybe they should become the whipping boy here . Clearly if there was any kind of a market for tires that size, they would be on the market. But you have to ask yourself when the last time was that a high performance car wearing a wide tire was released with a 17" wheel...It's been a while.

BTW, Michelin also sold tires for the F1 back in the day.

[The Dark Side of Will]

OMG Are you serious?!?!
This is probably your most thought-impaired week ever! Maybe you've had too much caffiene?
I seriously hope you return to the normal you I "knew" until a few days ago.
Spend a few minutes on tirerack.com looking up performance tires. You'll find some sizes of P-Zeros and Pilot Sports offered with 4 and 5 different versions, With footnotes like "Porsche" and "Audi".
How is Goodyear any different from Pirelli and Michelin? You think Goodyear deserves an exemption that Pirelli and Michelin don't?
And you can't patent a size. Compound, yes. Belting, depends. Tread pattern, yes.
Maybe F1 owners are too stupid to want P-Zeros or Pilot Sports, for maybe $15 per tire less than the Goodyears? Hardly matters.
Even so, to be profitable, you must sell as many tires as possible, in each size. Pirelli is doing it. So's Michelin.
If McLosers wants an exclusive tread, fine. But the carcass is most of the cost, and a 28.16" tall tire that fits a 17x11 rim would sell really well.
Do you realize that 40% of all tires sold in America are house brands, using big-name carcasses, with not-famous treads and sidewall names? It's true.

Umm... Chill out much?
Porsche and Audi sell thousands of cars. It makes sense for those tires to be available for anyone, anywhere because it's not practical for volume manufacturers to keep track of all of their cars.
McLaren built, what, less than 100 F1's? They *can* keep track of all of their cars. And when they want to have the initial heat cycle on the tires, it makes sense for them to limit who buys them. The tires themselves don't make the tiniest difference to Goodyear's bottom line, but are a halo product. They continue to produce those tires--despite the tiny demand--because McLaren has contracted them to do so (dont know for sure, but it's the only reasonable explanation). Do you think that specialized Porsche or Audi flavors of various tires will still be available 5 or 10 years after that vehicle is out of production? Think about the current situation with 345/45-15's originally designed for Lambo Countaches.

I am the "normal" Will. I respect your technical expertise, but I don't think you "get" business. That's ok and we can disagree about things until the cows come home as long as we remain civil. We've discussed profit margins, R&D sunk costs, etc. a bit before.

I work in the aerospace industry, where one-off and made-to-order products are the norm and technical requirements almost always trump cost. I am painfully aware of how production volume, RE (recurring engineering) and NRE (non-recurring engineering) interplay to determine the final price of an item. I've held items in the palm of my hand that have 6 figure price tags and not all the prices started with 1 (not bragging, just point out that's the world of low-volume highly engineered products).

[Series8217]

Hilarious pic:

http://www.fbody.com/members/random2//53056685.jpg

That's in Newport Beach. Will have to keep an eye out for that car next time I'm in OC..