Four cylinder Cummins for automotive use

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/19/cumm ... san-titan/

-Tremendously practical
-Makes perfect sense

Therefore: will be completely misunderstood by the domestic auto industry and will founder in the American market.

[AkursedX]

Ford makes a nice in-line 5 diesel (190hp/346ftlbs) that they put in the Euro-market Ranger: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/06/vide ... lnk1|34940 VW makes the Amarok with a 163hp/295ftlbs diesel http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/12/fi ... marok.html (I find it weird that the VW symbols have Mitsubishi symbols taped over them in the article.) I wish small-diesel pickups would make it over here to the USA. They would be great all-around vehicles.

A good friend of mine from my VW group is the team-lead for the Duramax fuel system and from what he's heard, GM will be bringing a diesel car to the market for probably the 2015 model year, so there might be some hope. My guess is it will be quite similar to the 2.0 diesel in the current Opel Insignia (160hp/258ftlbs)

[CincinnatiFiero]

So yeah, Mercedes has been making and selling small, medium,and large diesels for like 90 years, and selling them here. Have we forgotten?

Highest miled VW diesel - 600,000 miles roughly.

Highest miled Benz diesel - over 2,000,000.

Mild trolling completed, on to serious matters.

I REALLY like that Amorok though. The interior looks so freaking nice on the high level trucks, and a twin turbo 2.0l direct injected TDi, yes freaking please.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _SUV_3.jpg

photo is enormous so I removed the img tags.

The problem is diesel lags so much when the price of gasoline goes down and people are so short sighted they won't buy diesels. When gas was $4.29 and diesel was $4.19 for... two weeks... everyone was so jealous of my diesels and wanted to buy my Jetta and my spare 300D. My one friend even bought an '86 turbo golf diesel. Now regular is $3.55 and diesel is still $4.15 and everyone tells me I'm stupid for owning diesels. Hell yeah short sighted americans.

I would absolutely love a small straight 6 diesel pickup, or with turbo technology the way it is a 4cyl like the amarok is very powerful.

I have a spare OM603 turbo and an OM606 DOHC non turbo sitting around. If the dakota blows the 3.9 before I buy a 7.3 truck, which it won't this is purely mental masturbation, I'll MB diesel swap my dakota. I have an OM601 4cyl. 2.2L non turbo Mercedes 4cyl diesel too which I beleive I can cut down the OM603 turbo manifold and turbo it with. That would probably be the way to go in a mini truck. I've got a 5cyl shortblock too, so I'm dying to diesel swap something, I just don't have the time. I even have seen people 1.6/1.9L turbo swap pickups but the VW engines just don't make enough torque IMO unless you get a MUCH later motor when they became TDi's. I think my 300D is 196lb/ft which is right around what my 3.9L dakota makes stock.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I have been mentally masturbating about building an Merc diesel for off-road use. A diesel Jeep makes perfect sense, but it was only done for a few of the Daimler-Chrysler years.

I guess I'll have to research all the designations. Most of the passenger car units were I5's, right? Were the I6's DOHC? Turbo?

[Aaron]

My dream diesel is to take an old MK1 VW Rabbit and make a fuel economy daily driver. I'd swap in a new VW TDI motor with a 6-speed manual, and go overboard cutting weight, improving aerodynamics, and modifying the engine just to improve mileage (Which would also improve power in most cases).

I'd also incorporate some ideas of mine that seem crazy. For example, run the heater core water lines "over" the exhaust downpipe prior to the heater core, thereby getting the water warm nearly instantly for the winter months.

I bet 60mpg is easily attainable. And it'd be really reliable, and not even that expensive.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I've been contemplating getting a 1.9 TDi for the gas mileage. If I'm going to have a commuter car for the sake of mileage, it should get outstanding mileage.

www.fueleconomy.gov shows the 2.0's as getting slightly better mileage than the 1.9's, but since they have 45 more HP and about 100 more ftlbs, I'm sure I'd negate that by hammering the pedal all the time. I'm also a little skeptical when an engine goes from 95 HP to 140 and gets more efficient. The system may have been gamed.

That being said, the 2.0 TDi would make an outstanding engine for an Elise.

[Aaron]

That being said, the 2.0 TDi would make an outstanding engine for an Elise.

Hadn't thought of that.... Wow good idea. But might be cost prohibitive.

[AkursedX]

My dream diesel is to take an old MK1 VW Rabbit and make a fuel economy daily driver.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... Rabbit-TDi

I've been drooling over this car for months. I love everything about it. But a MK1 VW is something that you don't want for a DD. The ride and noise will wear on you real quick.

[CincinnatiFiero]

I have been mentally masturbating about building an Merc diesel for off-road use. A diesel Jeep makes perfect sense, but it was only done for a few of the Daimler-Chrysler years.

I guess I'll have to research all the designations. Most of the passenger car units were I5's, right? Were the I6's DOHC? Turbo?

Very brief overview.

There is the OM61X series motor. Made from the mid 70s up to 1985. Iron block, Iron head.

The 220D/240D came with the OM616, non turbo 2.4L 4cylinder. Like 70hp.
The 300D/300SD came with the OM617, offered in turbo or non 3.0L 5cylinder. The turbo came out in '79 only in the SD, and turbo became standard in the D from 83-85. The non turbos are around 90HP, the turbos are around 120HP.

These are the cheapest and easiest to get. OM617 is the way to go, the OM616 is a tractor motor.

Next came the OM60X series.

There was the OM601, aluminum head SOHC 2.2L (2.0 in euro trim, with no emissions) 4cylinder. ~88HP, in euro or US trim. All non turbo.
Then there was the OM602, in the US it came non turbo in "190D - 2.5" in 86-87, it was also offered in the "190D 2.5TURBO", it is a 2.5L Inline 5, SOHC, aluminum head. In 90-93 it was offered in the 300D 2.5Turbo, but this time had digital egr and wastegate, kind of hard to work with, mechanical wastegate kit is like $79.
Next, the OM603 it was available non turbo outside the US, but was always turbo here. Came in the '87 300D, the '86-87 300SDL. Rated at 143HP, 3.0L Inline 6, SOHC.
Then Mercedes put a stroker crank in the OM603 to bring it to 3.5L, they only rated it at like 5 more HP. The 3.5L was known to bend rods, and oval the blocks out, rendering them useless. However Mercedes did offer a replacement block for the 3.5L with cummins-thick rods that is bulletproof. They replaced it for free for original owners of the cars, otherwise you can get the shortblock for $28,000. This motor came in the 90-91 W126 350SD/SDL. The 92-93 300SD, and the 94-95 350SD.

Sidenote on the OM603. The 3.0L is known to be the stronger block, but the weaker head, the 3.5L had late updated head castings, and the bad block. You CAN put the later #17-22 heads on the early 3.0L blocks and have a bulletproof motor.

And then we get to the Twin Cams. Diesel was losing its luster in the US, so the twin cam diesels are uncommon in the US.

From 1996-1997 the E300D came with the OM606 Twin Cam, NON-Turbo diesel.
From 1998-1999 the E300D came with the OM606 Twin Cam, Turbo Diesel. This motor made nearly 200HP and the electric pump makes it possible to chip it.

There was an OM604 Twin Cam 4cyl diesel, and a OM605 Twin Cam 5cyl diesel offered in europe, but never officially offered here.


Now, for your purposes will, some cool tricks.

The OM606 Twin Cam uses an electric pump, making it hard to swap. However, you can buy a full mechanical pump from an OM603 motor, and run the OM606 fully mechanical.

Also, the OM606 came with a factory MLS headgasket, and you can drill an extra oil passage in an OM606 MLS gasket, and put it on an OM603 single cam, and run crazy bewst.

There is also some speculation that you can put a DOHC head on a SOHC block. So you could probably import a 604 head and put it on a 601 or a 605 head for a 602.

Now, if you want to make big power, you need to have the pump rebuilt with bigger elements. As of right now, the only real option is Myna in Sweden. There is a guy or two who claims they have better, bigger, elements and they are in the US. However they've both done like 2 pumps, or are just doing a bad job going public. I hope they do, I don't want to spend $2,700 with Myna.

In terms of cars, I own a 1987 300D OM603 3.0, a 1991 350SDL OM603 3.5, and a 1992 300D 2.5 OM602.

And a garage full of spare motors.

/sidebar Mercedes had made a TON of other motors before after and during these motors, but these are the US available passenger car motors.

[The Dark Side of Will]

And then we get to the Twin Cams. Diesel was losing its luster in the US, so the twin cam diesels are uncommon in the US.

From 1996-1997 the E300D came with the OM606 Twin Cam, NON-Turbo diesel.
From 1998-1999 the E300D came with the OM606 Twin Cam, Turbo Diesel. This motor made nearly 200HP and the electric pump makes it possible to chip it.

I need to stop listening to you.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?c ... =304605114

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.js ... d=30214314

Also, there are more than half a dozen of the twin cam turbo engines listed on http://www.car-parts.com for <$2000.

W210 with the OM606 or W124 with OM603 3.0?

The E34 535i is nice and it's great to have a stick, but I've put 30K on the car in about 1.5 years of driving. It gets about 17 around town with my driving and never more than 23 on the highway.
Once The Mule is back on the road in daily driveable condition, any sporting character that the 5 seems to have will vanish by comparison.

I've heard that the W124 has impeccable build quality and basically doesn't wear out. Ever. Only drawback is no stick.
Of course if I go to Merc for the Diesel lulz, I'll want the twin cam with electronic injection, which wasn't available in the W124.

[CincinnatiFiero]

1995 E300D. Its a W124 chassis with the OM606, non turbo.

I have a W124, and have had W210s. The W210 feels more like a mercedes. 1996 gets you a mechanical 4speed auto still, no overdrive. 1997 gets you a more problematic electronically controlled 5speed auto, but overdrive and more MPGs. The W210 isn't quite the brick shithouse the W124 was though. Also beware of W210s with bad AC, its the evap in the dash. $2k at your local dealer, or $900 if you can find an MB tech moonlighting. The W124 can crack the evap too, just not as common. I really want a 1998-99 E300 Turbo but don't want to shell out $10,000 I don't really have. I bought the SL instead. For the same $10,000 you can have an E300TD or an E55 which was a hard call.

I get about 26-27 combined out of my 1987 300D. Which when the 300E got 19, I think its great, but don't let craigslist fool you, old diesel benzes don't live in the high 30s in terms of MPG.

There are a lot of gray market W124s left over from the 80s. I have a friend with a 1988 250D 2.5na 5speed W124, I happen to have a turbo short block and whole turbo setup laying around, if we could ever agree on an number...

You may consider the W201 190Ds. The 2.2 and 2.5-non turbo were both offered state-side in a 5speed. In 1987 you could get a 190D 2.5Turbo, but only in an auto.

[Atilla the Fun]

So yeah, Mercedes has been making and selling small, medium,and large diesels for like 90 years, and selling them here. Have we forgotten?
Highest miled VW diesel - 600,000 miles roughly.
Highest miled Benz diesel - over 2,000,000.

Highest miled 6BT Ram - over 1.7 million miles and counting
Highest miled Detroit 6.2 - 1.4 million miles and counting
The Mercedes diesels are ancient, inefficient designs that are also bulky and heavy for the low efficiency. Honestly, forget them, even if they're free. Especially considering the related transmission situation. You couldn't pay me to take one, except to the scrap yard.
But how about the turbodiesel in the Jaguar?
That, I'd swap into my Trans Am. If I could get one at the salvage yard for $175, like a 6.2 Detroit. Jezza did 49.1 MPG at 77? MPH, and he said 0-60 was what, 7.5? seconds in that freaky car. Adapt it to a T56 in my lighter sleeker car, it'd thump. I would expect 55 MPG. It'd be fine in a pre-'94 2WD S-10 for that matter.

[The Dark Side of Will]

But how about the turbodiesel in the Jaguar?
That, I'd swap into my Trans Am. If I could get one at the salvage yard for $175, like a 6.2 Detroit. Jezza did 49.1 MPG at 77? MPH, and he said 0-60 was what, 7.5? seconds in that freaky car. Adapt it to a T56 in my lighter sleeker car, it'd thump. I would expect 55 MPG. It'd be fine in a pre-'94 2WD S-10 for that matter.

You mean the Jaguar Diesel from Top Gear that you CAN'T GET IN THE US? That was impressive, but a white elephant for us...

What freaky car was that? I have a hard time believing that a 6.2 could manage a 7.5 second 0-60 in anything bigger than a Lotus 7 replica. The IDI chamber is extremely efficient because it uses a small amount of fuel to heat a large amount of air... but it's extremely difficult to get it to make decent power. That's why direct injection has taken over.

[The Dark Side of Will]

1995 E300D. Its a W124 chassis with the OM606, non turbo.

I have a W124, and have had W210s. The W210 feels more like a mercedes. 1996 gets you a mechanical 4speed auto still, no overdrive. 1997 gets you a more problematic electronically controlled 5speed auto, but overdrive and more MPGs. The W210 isn't quite the brick shithouse the W124 was though. Also beware of W210s with bad AC, its the evap in the dash. $2k at your local dealer, or $900 if you can find an MB tech moonlighting. The W124 can crack the evap too, just not as common. I really want a 1998-99 E300 Turbo but don't want to shell out $10,000 I don't really have. I bought the SL instead. For the same $10,000 you can have an E300TD or an E55 which was a hard call.

I get about 26-27 combined out of my 1987 300D. Which when the 300E got 19, I think its great, but don't let craigslist fool you, old diesel benzes don't live in the high 30s in terms of MPG.

There are a lot of gray market W124s left over from the 80s. I have a friend with a 1988 250D 2.5na 5speed W124, I happen to have a turbo short block and whole turbo setup laying around, if we could ever agree on an number...

You may consider the W201 190Ds. The 2.2 and 2.5-non turbo were both offered state-side in a 5speed. In 1987 you could get a 190D 2.5Turbo, but only in an auto.

What do you mean the W210 "feels more like a Mercedes"?
I saw quite a few E34 BMW's and W124 Mercs in Baghdad, which is a testament to those cars' durability.

So I'm thinking either a '98-'99 W210 with the OM606 twin cam turbo engine and 5 speed auto, EPA rated at 32 mpg highway, accept that it's not fast; realize that I have a fast car; AND JUST DRIVE IT (smart, realistic answer).

Or '95 W124 OM606 twin cam non-turbo and swapping it over to a stick using early W124 parts. I don't know exactly what those parts would be, yet. Of course if I'm swapping out the transmission, I might as well go for the turbo twin cam with electronic injection... (stupid insane gearhead answer)

M5's and E55's are impressive and lustworthy, but I just prefer to build rather than buy my fast cars.
I had throught about an E34 M5, and even looked at an E28 M5... but I realized I'd end up putting a lot of miles on a hand built article using it for commuter duty. I'd also end up wanting to modify a "numbers matching" original.

[Atilla the Fun]

Matching numbers is primarily a 'vette-restorer thing, and even then, it's a bit stupid. Original stuff is never the best stuff. Why would I keep an old 'vette with a 327 and an iron Powerglide when I could sneak in a roller-lifter 383 with a 200-4R?
It's your car, and you're a car guy, so make the car you want, drive the way you want, within the limits of the law. Was that too many commas in one sentence? Probably, but oh well.
I don't care if I can't have that Jag in the USA, the real question is can I import a used example of that engine, at a price I can afford? Since the answer is no, it's just a nice theory.
And it was 8.5 seconds, not 7.5, sorry.
Still, I say who needs a Cummins 4BT when adapting the 6.2 Detroit is so much easier? It fits exactly like a BBC, so it mounts exactly like a SBC, and takes the best transmissions with no adapters. Banks has a turbo setup to get the 6.2 to a reliable 200 HP, and I've personally seen a 6.2 do 35 MPG in a friend's C-10. It's also lighter, cheaper, easier to get, and lighter-duty-emissions-certified, and to a newer year, than any Cummins 4BT.
The 4BT ain't but a bread-truck engine. Nothing more.

[Atilla the Fun]

Cummins building Nissan a 2.8L, 220 HP, 350 TQ for the Titan is one thing. But for automotive diesels, how about the police Jag diesel? 3.0L, and 0-60 in 5.9 seconds! That's better than most 305 / automatic Camaros did.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Nice engine, but it needs to come to this country...

[Aaron]

That's better than most 305 / automatic Camaros did.

I should fucking hope so.

If BMW made a 335d in coupe form, with a 6-speed, I'd buy one tomorrow. Fun, handling, quick, reliable, and an easy 40mpg hwy.

[CincinnatiFiero]

Jezza did 49.1 MPG at 77? MPH, and he said 0-60 was what, 7.5? seconds in that freaky car. Adapt it to a T56 in my lighter sleeker car, it'd thump. I would expect 55 MPG. It'd be fine in a pre-'94 2WD S-10 for that matter.

Ignorantly missing the difference between imperial gallons and US gallons.




Will the what I mean is the W210 is softer and a little more detached than the W124, the W124 rides a little harder but I think is more "fun" to drive. The W210 is nicer to drive. The steering changed from the W124 to the W210 from recirculating ball to rack and pinion. I actually kind of prefer the older, heavier steering of the W124. However since the W210 is a development and improvement of the E-class it only makes sense. The W210 turbos are far from slow in my opinion. They aren't E55s, but they should give a 525i, or more to the point an E320 a run for its money. Drive a 240D with 65hp and get back to me on slow lol.

I have been thinking seriously about an OM606 turbo swap into the 1987 300D. However I got to spend some time in an '08 CDI, and WOW, what a car. I may just wait a year and buy one of those. The new W212 cars are helping push down the values of the W211.

I just bought a W201 190D 2.5 non-turbo. Its remarkably fun to drive with the very short wheelbase, its only 93HP but it does just fine around town and has no problems cruising at 100. My girlfriend uses it as a campus beater to keep the A4 safe. Its getting just shy of 30mpg around town.

Again, the diesels aren't AMGs, but if you're trying to burn less dead dinosaurs they are a good start. I have been trying to exclusively run B20 in my 190D and my 300D. They run smoother, and smell less diesely. Only $.10/gallon more here.

And unless you want to be in a tin can Jetta (I have an Mk2 IDI) the MBZ is your only real diesel option. The Volvo 2.4L VW I-6 is hard to get parts for an unreliable, and the 524td wasn't very good either and hard to get parts for as well. The 335d is a phenomenal car, but still a $30k car, but for that matter so is the E320CDI.

Have you looked at the 2.0L Audi Diesel that came in some B5.5 Passats? Those cars are pretty good. I think they came with a stick too.