87 Fastback L47 Chump Car/ Lemons Project.

[FieroWanaBe1]

I have a question regarding the DIS as well as the knock control used with the 7730 and Ryan Hess' tune.

Ryan doesn't have the timing offset or the max or min advance/retard as parameters in his .xdf
The V6 DIS has an offset of 70* in the $12P, the V6 DIS (and 4Cyl?) has a 3X ref pulse to the ECU and a 24x pulse (and high-low if SFI).
The Northstar ICM however has a 4X ref pulse fed to the ECU and a 24x pulse fed to the ECU. (at least that Ryan is using, I know there is more)

Loading Ryan's .bin in the A1.xdf (off what his tune is based) reveals a spark offset of 65.29 compared to the standard 60, I'm not sure if that is correct, if it is, I would assume that would be the value to use in the $12p, I have also seen people use around a value of 70* on third gen.
http://lukeskaff.com/?page_id=380
http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view/Gmecm/DISdist
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/posts ... st144.html

Any insight is appreciated.

Also
Since Ryan's tune requires the use of the V6 memcal, it is using the v6 knock sense circuitry. I'm assuming it works reasonably well with the N* engines? I never saw the Auroras memcal, or if it has one. I still have the computer but never opened it up (its a 20min drive away at the moment), I'm wondering if it's possible to have a Northstar based knock sensing board on the memcal (if there is such a thing).

[jdv]

Ryan's memcal has been modified to work on a v8 if you take the blue cover off you can see it . On $12p you don't need the memcal as the cylinder select and the knock filter are on the board. If you look on delcohacking site in the hardware modification they put dis on a few v8's . Doe's that year northstar have the 7 notch timing wheel?

[FieroWanaBe1]

It has a 24X wheel on the crank, with two sensors, and a 2 position cam sensor.

hence my pondering on reference angle, the 70degree doesn't make sense to me as far as the geometry of the sync signal.
The 7165 ECU has no internal knock filter, the cars it was equipped in have external knock filters, According to .nl the ECU requires a memcal with a knock circuit.
http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/1 ... .html#p134

[The Dark Side of Will]

The interface between the ICM and the ECM is exactly the same between the 8 cylinder DIS and the 6 cylinder DIS. That's why the 7730 can run a Northstar...

Have you tried emailing Ryan about the significance of the spark offset?

Fundamentally, if you doubt the timing values, you may need to build a timing mark and use a timing light.

[jdv]

what nvram board are you going to use ? The one from VL400 outlined in this thread http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32
Has these features.
Selectable cylinder number via on board solder jumpers. No need to find that 4 6 or 8cyl memcal anymore.
Knock filter direct to the NVRAM board. Can mix and match filter boards for custom apps.
Does not require a memcal to be installed but is optional for limp home function or if you want it to select the number of cyl and control knock filtering.

[FieroWanaBe1]

I will not use an NVRAM, just a burned chip soldered on a factory memcal. its a 500$ budget, and a $5 chip is the most logical option.

[FieroWanaBe1]

Some actual progress albeit slow. I am in the process moving from my current residence.
Seem welding is going OK, the frame's coating was not easy to get off with a wire wheel on a 4" grinder, and a sanding disc doesn't get in the seam well. A sanding disc, wire wheel, and torch made the seams OK enough to lay some not terrible beads done. Hopefully soon, there will be some progress on seams that matter, as soon as the car gets dedicated floor space in the shop.

[FieroWanaBe1]

Progress is still slow, more seam sealer gone and more seams stitched.

Got some night lights for the 25HR race.

[FieroWanaBe1]

Updates as of so far:
The car isnt dead, just no physical frame progress lately.
I found an 84 in a yard that is about fully stripped, I hope it is still there so I can go and cut the lower and upper frame rails out, they were exposed and in minty rust free condiditon.

What I did get for the build lately is:
1. A Good mid-mileage M17 3.65 Muncie, a mid-mileage MY2 4.10 muncie, A shim selector tool-kit.
2. A '7165 ECU from a Firebird, I plan on using the knock filter on the l47 Memcal chip.
3. An 88 Front Suspension, Bad 88 steering rack, and steering shaft. (I am not thinking of using this though, It may go on my Personal 86GT.)
4. New Coolant Clamps from the Fierostore
5. A Gtech Pro Fanatic RR. This is a low-cost 10Hz GPS lap timer and Drag timer. No accelerometers at all.
Ive used it in my GTO, and it works ok so far, havent used it in track mode yet though.(My GTO is measuring around 240whp on it, disappointing. [t56, CAI, Cat-back, shitty tires and 18" wheels, and TC on.])
6. Ive been karting quite a bit at a local 0.5 mile track and at the track at Road America. I pace mid-pack at both venues. Not bad for no expereice. 2 seconds below the leader and above 2 seconds faster than the most realistic slowest people.
7. Ive been reading a lot of different books on car setups, some new, some are re-reads, but I am trying to get as much instight as I can on what to do to ensure a competive car. The car that won LeMons the last race here at Road America was a X1/9 with a Alfa Romeo V6. I think if we get reliability and the Suspension managable, we can lap much faster consistantly.
8. I bought the headlights DoubleC4 had made that using projector bulbs. I want to use them at a true 24hr race, plus they add to the LeMans GT Race look a-la-C5R GT1!
Up coming things this fall:
-Lowering ball joints and all new joints and tie rods for the front and rear from Rodney Dickman. (he's local to me, so he usually gives me a very fair price to come and pick-up parts with cash in hand.)
-The frame is coming in to the shop to reside full-time during winter were all the patch and reinforcement panels and structural members will be fabricated, and the more stich welding can happern.
-Go find the needed suspension hardware for the rear of the car
-Strip the frame of the front suspension parts to sand-blast and reinforce the A-arms. I am really trying to convince my self to modify the lower A-arms to cure the non-coaxial
bushing problem and fit the trailing portion with a double sperical member to elimnate the binding, and also try to make it dive nuetral.
-Get the poly for the rest of the car
-Swap my 88 rear cradle into my 86GT so I can use the solid bushings from that cradle on the Race-car cradle.
-Use the old school print/trace/plasma/grind and drill press method to create some brake caliper brackets and document it for the ChumCar Judges to show this is really a low budget build not a "cheater" car and still in the spirit of the rules.
-Get the wilwood Iron Metric Calipers of yet to determine bore size for the Brakes ( I need to pull my old matlab scripts form SAE Formula and get the code workign again)
-S10 Master cylinder
-Rodney Dickman Clutch Hydraulics
-Fiero flwheel plugged and drilled for the N*
-Im thinking the RAM HD clutch for that OE look on the car. Can it hold though?
Thoughts?
Thanks for reading.

[FieroWanaBe1]

Moved the car indoors.

found this.
Replacement rack from an 85GT is 75$ at a local yard. Maybe a local junk fiero collector has one for cheaper.

I pretty sure almost everything on this car will be replaced, yikes.

I got new frame rails from a yard, they are rusty and have been worked over to get the bolts out. But they are better than what we have on the car.
Bought a newer style throttle body, a stainless fuel rail, and a spare coil pack from the yard too. That place was a rip off however, and overcharged, I should have pocketed a bunch of injectors and sensors.

Found a Getrag and some drop spindles for a decent price on Pennock's as well.

Pictures of updates coming soon...

[FieroWanaBe1]

V6 and 4.10 4-speeds to become one:


Anyone have a LSD unit they want to let go of? I would really like to add one to one of our trans options

Tomorrow I will be picking up a set of 91 Olds Ciera Knuckles W/ 5x115 hubs for the rear suspension.

[The Dark Side of Will]

V6 and 4.10 4-speeds to become one:


Anyone have a LSD unit they want to let go of? I would really like to add one to one of our trans options

Tomorrow I will be picking up a set of 91 Olds Ciera Knuckles W/ 5x115 hubs for the rear suspension.

I have a Gr8Grip currently in my 282, and you're welcome to it when I swap to the larger diff and EP LSD that I have on the shelf. That should be some time this winter.

[FieroWanaBe1]

The GR8Grip unit puts spring preload on the spider and side gears, coorect? Does it do anything to mitigate thrust and friction load?

I emailed EP about sending a Muncie Diff in since I know have 3 complete units. The price was 599$, more than I want to spend on this car.
I'll probably blow a ton of money on the F40 and the Qauife LSD for my personal car though.

[FieroWanaBe1]

Front Suspension removed.
We Ruined the Driver side lower control arm mount in our attemp to seperate the bushing sleeve from the bolt. The bolt holes are very elliptical now.

Im thinking some fender washers could be welding over the tabs to restore the bolt holes to round.
I picked up some uprights from a 91 Olds Ciera.


Rear suspension out:


As it all sits.


I think this next weekend I'll be working on dissassembly of the suspension parts and sand blasting.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The GR8Grip unit puts spring preload on the spider and side gears, coorect? Does it do anything to mitigate thrust and friction load?

I emailed EP about sending a Muncie Diff in since I know have 3 complete units. The price was 599$, more than I want to spend on this car.
I'll probably blow a ton of money on the F40 and the Qauife LSD for my personal car though.

Yeah, a new EP is not in the budget for a LeMons or Chump Car.

The "mitigation" is don't do one wheel burnouts.

[FieroWanaBe1]

Yeah, a new EP is not in the budget for a LeMons or Chump Car.

The "mitigation" is don't do one wheel burnouts.

Well, that take all the fun out of a vicotry lap...

[Shaun41178(2)]

looking good keep up the good work

[FieroWanaBe1]

I recently recieved my copy of the Fiero Press Guide from The Fiero Store a couple of months ago, I finally got to looking through it. I spotted this usefull bit of info:

[The Dark Side of Will]

LOL at negative anti-squat and anti-dive percentages.

[FieroWanaBe1]

This isn't dead yet, just a series of slow-downs and delays. I started a new job at Kohler Power Systems, I have been commuting 55 miles everyday, which eats lots of my time. We moved shops, to a larger location, that ate up a good amount of time. Last month the e30 was run with it's new owner at chump car's race at Road America, I did some ecu tuning and dyno work for the team. (170whp, 160tq) I've been working on my free time getting my CNC plasma-torch system set up; as well as collecting more parts for this project.

The car in its new shop corner.

Engine and some of the 4 speeds and Getrag that I have collected (I have a 4.10 unit disassembled in a crate as well.)

Front Drop spindles

The wheels we are going to use. Got a great deal that we couldnt pass up.

Just bought these wheel bearings, after talking to a team running a Fiero and a team running a Cavalier, and another running a Aurora, it sounds like GM hub units are averaging 1.5 race weekends a bearing. (these are parts store units) I don't want to be dealing with that stuff mid-race, Hopefully we can do better with these units.
I have some Front hubs I bought from Corvair Ranch, and will post pictures as those get cleaned up and re-studded, along with the rear hubs.

I am not sure where this will end up yet.

it's a F40 MU9 from a '07 G6 GTP. I have a Quaife and a New surplus MT2 as well. I hope to build a unit with the new parts, the MU9 gearing, and the LSD. Ill have a spare MT2 geared unit as well, but where to use it?

anyone want to buy some e30 parts, all are for sale.