bin file 1998 F-body, 3.8L 5 speed

[ericjon262]

anyone have a bin file for a 1998 F-body, 3.8L 5 speed that they are willing to share?

Thanks-

Eric

[fieroguru]

There are a couple on the HP Tuners Tune Repository. I downloaded on of them and can email it to you. Just let me know your email address.

[ericjon262]

thanks, I got one off of 60degreeV6.com. now I'm looking for a 2000 J body 2.2 5 speed bin. can I acess the HP tuners bins without HP tuners?

[fieroguru]

Access to the the tune repository is based on serial # registration of the HP Tuners devise, so you have to have a registered HP Tuners setup for access. There are two 2000 2.2 Auto calibrations there, but no manuals. There are manual 2.2 Cavalier calibrations for 1998 and 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004.

If you are only looking for the data in a few tables, I could open them up and send you the data in excel.

[ericjon262]

well, right now, I'm looking at several different things, it all stemmed from making a pinout for the 16236757 PCM. that PCM is one of the main obd2 PCM's used for the 60*V6. I was researching what pin to put a clutch switch into if reconfigured for a 5 speed, and found the 1998 F body uses the same PCM, which explained why the .bin has a manual option in the transmission programming. now I'm looking at table "1st gear min RPM/Vehicle speed ratio" and "2nd gear min RPM/Vehicle speed ratio" I was thinking that this table should use data from the transmission's parent vehicle, in this case, a 2000 Cavalier.

here's a screenshot from tiny tuner, the data inputted now, is the data for the F body.






for those interested, here are the pinouts, there are still a few pins missing, and a few that I was not entirely positive as to what they were.


Blue PCM connector pins
1. O
2. 2nd gear start indicator
3. Fuel level output
4. Shift solenoid a
5. Fan 2
6. Fan1
7. Cam position sensor input
8. Low frequency crank position
9. High frequency crank position
10. O
11. O
12. ECT ground
13. Map ground
14. O
15. Serial data
16. PCM ground
17. IAT Ground
18. O
19. Ignition Feed
20. Battery Feed
21. O
22. Transmission range A
23. O
24. O
25. O
26. O
27. HO2S
28. HO2s
29. HO2S
30. TCC brake input
31. EGR pintle position sensor ground
32. EGR control(EGR Ground?)
33. Bank one knock sensor
34. Bank two knock sensor
35. O
36. Alternator charge warning lamp(generator control?)
37. O
38. IAC B High
39. Fuel pump speed control relay
40. O
41. O
42. O
43. Injector control (1 60v6/6 for 3800)
44. Shift solenoid B
45. O
46. Injector control (3 60v6/4 3800
47. Injector control (2 60v6/5 3800
48. Reference low (IGN mod ground)
49. O
50. O
51. O
52. O
53. Ignition control bypass
54. Ignition control
55. VSS output
56. PCM ground
57. PCM ground
58. O
59. Class 2 serial data
60. PCM ground
61. TPS ground
62. Input shaft speed sensor low (4t65e)
63. Input shaft speed sensor high(4t65e)
64. VSS high in
65. VSS low in
66. O
67. O
68. Transaxle range position switch B
69. MAF Signal
70. Theft deter fuel enable
71. Traction control desired torque input
72. Cruise control inhibit
73. Injector control (5 60v6/2 3800)
74. O
75. ECT hot warning lamp
76. EVAP purge solenoid
77. O
78. O
79. Injector control(6 60v6/1 3800
80. O


Clear connector
1. O
2. EVAP canister vent control
3. Fuel pump relay control
4. EGR Valve control
5. SES light
6. Low oil light
7. IAC valve A High
8. Tach output signal
9. Traction control delivered torque control
10. HO2S signal
11. HO2S signal
12. HO2S signal
13. O
14. O
15. Transaxle range switch P
16. PNP switch signal?
17. Transmission range C(4L60e)
18. Transaxle range switch A (clutch anticipate switch)
19. O
20. O
21. 2nd gear start signal
22. A/C request
23. Crank signal?
24. O
25. Map sensor signal
26. ECT signal
27. A/C pressure signal
28. EGR pintle position signal
29. O
30. O
31. O
32. O
33. 5 volt reference A
34. 5 volt reference B
35. Sensor ground
36. Change oil lamp
37. O
38. O
39. A/C compressor relay control
40. O
41. O
42. Injector control(4 60v6/3 3800)
43. O
44. IAC valve A Low
45. Pressure control solenoid high
46. Pressure control solenoid low
47. O
48. 3-2 solenoid control
49. IAC valve B Low
50. IAT sensor
51. O
52. O
53. O
54. O
55. Fuel tank pressure signal
56. Transaxle range switch C
57. Transmission range B (4L60e)
58. Oil level signal
59. Cruise status
60. O
61. Generator terminal L
62. O
63. TCC release switch input (4t65E)
64. O
65. O
66. TPS signal
67. O
68. Trans fluid temp signal
69. Fuel level sensor input
70. High frequency crank position ground
71.
72. Cam position power supply
73. Cam position sensor ground
74. High frequency crank position power supply
75. O
76. Starter enable (VATS?)
77. Boost control solenoid control circuit
78. TCC PWM solenoid control
79. TCC enable solenoid control
80. O

[The Dark Side of Will]

Do you know how the ratio is calculated?

[ericjon262]

Do you know how the ratio is calculated?

now that you mention it, I guess I'm putting the carriage in front of the horse... I had done a little research into it, but I had trouble finding real data on it.

do you know? I'm all ears if anyone has any input.

[ericjon262]

Do you know how the ratio is calculated?

still trying to figure this out... last night, I thought I had it. I was thinking it was simply minimum RPM/Vehicle speed, just as the table lists it, but the numbers don't line up, as the tables are identical between first and second, which wouldn't work out right, and the numbers don't produce a linear curve when graphed out either. 16-32MPH is linear, but 8MPH to 16 mph has a weird jump there, and 0 MPH would require 0 RPM, so that value should also be 0...

hmmmm... back to the drawing board.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I'd just leave it and see if it gives you problems.

The engine can be at idle/neutral and have idle RPM with zero vehicle speed, OR it can be at idle/1st and have idle RPM with non-zero vehicle speed. In both cases, the clutch is not depressed and throttle % is zero... so there has to be enough latitude in the programming to accommodate these two states.

The table's really only useful for automatic transmissions, so that the PCM can tell if the transmission is slipping or having other problems. The ratios in that case have a good bit of latitude built in to accommodate torque converter slip.

If a manual transmission deviates from those ratios, then the situation is serious enough that it doesn't need a trouble code. IE, either the clutch is slipping and the driver knows it, so he'll nurse it back home and replace the clutch; or the clutch is slipping and the driver doesn't know it, in which case it will take just a minute or two to finish wearing out the clutch and strand the driver (but the clutch needs to be replaced ANYWAY, so there's no way to prevent damage to the vehicle by alerting the driver); or the transmission just broke and vehicle is coasting to a halt. A trouble code or check engine light wouldn't help in any of these cases, so the utility of this function with a manual transmission is limited at best.

Also, the name of the table is "minimum" ratio of RPM to vehicle speed. My understanding is that this checks to be sure that the vehicle is moving at least Y mph when RPM is X, again addressing transmission slip. The form of the ratio would be MPH/RPM.

Also again, is there an associated RPM range over which the calculation this table checks is valid?

[ericjon262]

I'd just leave it and see if it gives you problems.

The engine can be at idle/neutral and have idle RPM with zero vehicle speed, OR it can be at idle/1st and have idle RPM with non-zero vehicle speed. In both cases, the clutch is not depressed and throttle % is zero... so there has to be enough latitude in the programming to accommodate these two states.

The table's really only useful for automatic transmissions, so that the PCM can tell if the transmission is slipping or having other problems. The ratios in that case have a good bit of latitude built in to accommodate torque converter slip.

If a manual transmission deviates from those ratios, then the situation is serious enough that it doesn't need a trouble code. IE, either the clutch is slipping and the driver knows it, so he'll nurse it back home and replace the clutch; or the clutch is slipping and the driver doesn't know it, in which case it will take just a minute or two to finish wearing out the clutch and strand the driver (but the clutch needs to be replaced ANYWAY, so there's no way to prevent damage to the vehicle by alerting the driver); or the transmission just broke and vehicle is coasting to a halt. A trouble code or check engine light wouldn't help in any of these cases, so the utility of this function with a manual transmission is limited at best.

Also, the name of the table is "minimum" ratio of RPM to vehicle speed. My understanding is that this checks to be sure that the vehicle is moving at least Y mph when RPM is X, again addressing transmission slip. The form of the ratio would be MPH/RPM.

Also again, is there an associated RPM range over which the calculation this table checks is valid?

this table is zero'd in automatic bins, I've only seen data in it on a manual transmission bin.

from what I can see, it looks like these tables (they go up to fifth gear, only 1st and 2nd have data) are to help the PCM determine what gear the transmission is in or to control the shift light(not sure why, but I want it to work). this shouldn't really matter a whole lot, but I would still like to have the correct data in place. might be able to do a couple of data logs and figure it out pretty quick. there is also a max RPM/vehicle speed somewhere I remember seeing it, but I can't find it ATM.


I'm going to start digging into the bin a little more, see what else I can find.

some interesting things I've found, thus far:

This PCM is used only on V6 cars and vans that I've seen, yet it has 7 and 8 cylinder misfire error codes available to be turned on and off.

the 60* bin files have bank to bank fueling available, much like the RWD F-body bin, although on the 60* bin, it isn't turned on.

there is an oil pressure input somewhere(or at least, there's an error code for low and high oil pressure), which may be able to be used to log wideband data.

the F body bin doesn't use a IAT sensor, the 60* bin does.

I think tearing down the PCM coding is going to be my next big undertaking with this car. I also think I'm going to end up hating that decision!

[The Dark Side of Will]

Interesting. I'd heard of the table before, but I hadn't realized it was zero'd out in auto trans cars.

The factory shift light is usually calibrated for best gas mileage. I'm not sure if it was an EPA requirement or what. Part of the reason that auto transmission powertrains are easier to certify for emissions than manual transmission powertrains is that the automatics can be programmed for ideal shift points. I think the shift light is a concession to government regulators. I'm sure it works... after all, everyone does exactly what overbearing government busybody tells them to do, right?

Sounds like you could do some interesting stuff with that PCM.

[ericjon262]

after all, everyone does exactly what overbearing government busybody tells them to do, right?

exactly what they say!

Sounds like you could do some interesting stuff with that PCM.

I'm finding that more and more.

also, FWIW, Jet's dynamic spectrum tuning software has more tune-able tables then what I've seen through DHP, or the tiny tuner. it's also available free

http://www.jetchip.com/Software.asp

the downside, you still need a programmer to upload the bin file with, not a big deal for me, because I have a DHP unit too.*


*Edit: someone on another board is telling me it may be a bad idea to try and tune it without the Jet uploader, I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens, I'll keep this thread updated.

[The Dark Side of Will]

My dad's in a similar situation with his LT1-based systems. LT1Edit and TunerCat have different settings available for the TCC, so he has to download the .bin via LT1Edit, tune with TunerCat, then upload with LT1Edit.

TunerCat shows 2nd gear lockup settings for the LT1 PCM's, but so far we have not been able to make those work.
Due to its combo of loose converter and tall gears, my dad's Suburban would see significant driveability benefits from being in 2nd gear lockup vs. 3rd gear unlocked (and similarly for 3rd gear lockup vs. 4th gear unlocked) in certain situations, but we haven't been able to get there.

I keep telling him that the real answer is to get an LS1 wheel from EFI Connection, machine a crank sensor mount to bolt to the stock mechanical fuel pump mount, buy the coils and go to the LS1 controls. This is a 500cid Cadillac engine with 4L80E and 10.5" 14 bolt full-floating rear with 3.27 (3.23?) gears. The converter is the dual stator unit from a 350 powered truck with towing package, so it's a bit loose.

[ericjon262]

a little update, the Jet software won't save the bin back to anything but a .jcl file, making it worthless without a jet programmer. sucks, because I was looking forward to playing around with it. maybe I can find a used Jet programmer on the cheap.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I assume that's not just a .bin with the .jcl suffix instead...

[ericjon262]

I assume that's not just a .bin with the .jcl suffix instead...

I haven't dug too deep into it, but I think there's more to it then that. Tiny tuner doesn't recognize the file type.