Manual Transmission that Fits Several Engines?

[Identity Crisis]

Guys I know you will know the answer to this right away.

What Manual Transmission can be fitted to the 3500 V6 as well as an LS Series V8?

I asked this same question on Old Europe. Just an FYI, so no one thinks I am F#cking around here.

THanks
BULL

[Shaun41178(2)]

The only trans that will fit an ls series as well as a 3500, is a stock Fiero style fwd trans, however the ls has to be an ls4. If its not an ls4 then you need an adapter plate.

Don't bother with anything else than an ls4 if going to a SBC style v8 swap. No reason to spend $4k on an install kit from that one hack when you can get the same power via an ls4 and no adapter kit.

Muncie 4 spd
Isuzu 5 spd
Getrag 5 spd
Getrag 6 spd

Those 4 will all fit an ls 4 as well as a 3500

[The Dark Side of Will]

The 3500 has the GM front wheel drive bellhousing pattern.
The only LS engine that has that pattern is the LS4, as Shaun said.

However, the LS4 needs to have the starter mounted on the transmission. FieroGuru fabbed a bracket to bolt the LS4 starter up to the F40 trans, but also had to machine a hole in the bellhousing so that it could mesh with the flywheel.

Also, the LS4 water manifold is pretty bulky and doesn't fit the Fiero engine bay very well.

Edit: FIeroGuru's starter mount: http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/000123.html#p1

[fieroguru]

Here is the response I posted in the thread on Old Europe:

The 3500 uses the GM Metric bell housing Pattern. All the RWD engines in the LS family use the old SBC/BBC bell housing pattern. Only the FWD LS4 has the same metric bell housing pattern as the 3500.

Manual transmissions with the metric bell housing include: 4 speed muncie, 5 speed isuzu, 5 speed 282 getrag, 92-94 HTOB 282 getrag, 284 5 speed getrag, F23 5 speed, F40 6 speed... and a few others.

Without an adapter plate any one of these transmission could bolt up to both the 3500 or the LS4. The challenge is the LS4 does not have a starter provision and none of the transmissions listed have an OEM provision for mounting the starter on the transmission side. It is possible to fabricate a bolt on starter mount for the LS4. Once past the starter, then you need a custom flywheel.

With an adapter plate any one of these transmission could bolt up to both the 3500 (no adapter plate) or any of the RWD LS engines (with adapter plate, custom starter mount, flywheel, etc). V8 V8Archie sells the kit to use a metric bell housing transmission with the RWD LS engines.

For example F40 6 speed transmission has been installed behind a 2.8, 3.4TDC (nearing completion), 3800, 3900, 4.9L, N*, LS4, and many RWD LS engines using V8Archie's kit.

[Emc209i]

And of the Getrag 5 speed, there's two or three to choose from. But a more important question, do you really care enough to put an LS in a Fiero?

Its hard to get an LS engine in one, considering how easy it is to do other swaps. In my opinion (and I know you didn't ask) it isn't worth all the trouble installing one.

Pro's
-Better torque and power NA
-Better sound
-More exotic (relative term)
-You can impress the lesser read crowd

Con's
-Very expensive
-Exponentially harder to service
-A Fiero with a smaller boosted engine will outperform an eight cylinder Fiero (In the turns and in a straight line).

I personally need to have at least one V8 or larger to drive, which is why I went to a different platform. The Fiero is all about balance to me - or as Will has said in the past, "packaging". Spending enormous amounts of time and resources to stuff something that shouldn't fit into the car just doesn't seem smart to me anymore. I've worked on a SBC Fiero, and all the little niggling things on that car added up. You couldn't just replace a part, you had to readjust adapters, realign seals, take three things out of the way to get to what you wanted to. The LS is going to be the same story, esp that front water manifold on the LS4.

A supercharged 3800 belongs in a Fiero. Its exotic just like the car. It has a shit ton of torque which the other V6's don't have - it will really put you back in the seat with just the M90. It fits perfectly. It's probably one of the easiest if not the easiest engine swap outside of the 3.4 block. The pro's of this engine could fill pages. And it's not hard to get a respectable (VERY RELIABLE) 350wtq out of this one. A flat 350 tq curve is much more than enough to enjoy a Fiero. It's brutal at stop lights. Choices like these seem much more natural to me. The suspension will keep up with this power also.

Just something to think about. For what it will cost you to do the V8 swap, you could buy a sports car with a V8 in it that's more fun to drive. If you've got a ton of time to kick around though, maybe you'd enjoy the challenge, I don't know.

[Identity Crisis]

Thanks a lot guys. You more then answered my question for sure. I really do appreciate the fact that you throw in extra information, it really helps me consider things through. I have lots of resources at my disposal, like engines etc and I am trying to come to a final decision on what I want for my 87GT for its 30th anniversary.

My initail idea was a 3800 L67, but I keep toying with the idea of something else.

Thanks again. BTW I would never buy or go through that certain V8 guy.

[fieroguru]

Here are some typical vehicle weights stock and swapped from a single set of race scales. Some of the weights are quite interesting.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Do you know anything about that 455 Olds weight?
That one doesn't pass the smell test for me.
I don't see how an engine swap with a powertrain that weighs less than 1000 lbs can add 1000 lbs to the car.

Is that your photobucket?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Its hard to get an LS engine in one, considering how easy it is to do other swaps. In my opinion (and I know you didn't ask) it isn't worth all the trouble installing one.

The Fiero is all about balance to me - or as Will has said in the past, "packaging". Spending enormous amounts of time and resources to stuff something that shouldn't fit into the car just doesn't seem smart to me anymore.

You couldn't just replace a part, you had to readjust adapters, realign seals, take three things out of the way to get to what you wanted to.

Good thoughts.

I have thought about doing parallel, properly engineered SBC and LS swaps, so that one kit could do either engine. While it would be interesting to see what such animals could do when built properly, I quickly stop seeing the point. Any kit I'd come up with would cost twice what Rcheee's kit costs, because mine would actually work. People who would appreciate the difference probably wouldn't buy Fieros in the first place.
No matter how well I engineer the engine installation, the car would still have the same achilles heel: the wrong wheel drive transmssions.

I'm starting to think about a Diasio set up for street use.

The Northstar is a WAY easier swap, fits better and has jsut as much potential, although it takes more work to extract. I'm still into mine because of the lessons it can teach me about top shelf engine builds. I'll need to know those things before I start playing around with the engines I'd like to get into, which are much more expensive and come from a manufacturer that starts with F.

[fieroguru]

Do you know anything about that 455 Olds weight?
That one doesn't pass the smell test for me.
I don't see how an engine swap with a powertrain that weighs less than 1000 lbs can add 1000 lbs to the car.

Is that your photobucket?

That's Tracy's car with the 455/THM425, roots style blower, etc.
http://www.fierocountry.us/tracy.html

Nope, that's eph_kay's account. He has gushotrods old tube chassis car and several other import projects.