The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:50 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Just ordered 1 1/2 - 1 1/4 reducer coupling from the guys above, as well as one each 45 and 90 degree 1.25" 304 SS 16ga bends on 1.80" radius from http://www.mandrel-bends.com

Thinking about getting one of these: http://www.tubebeadingtool.com/

Edit: Ran across a mention of The Poi as a pioneer in DIY tube bead forming while researching this: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=76319
The Dark Side of Will wrote:Just got off the phone with Brian at Graham Tool.

The hand-held tools have a different die set for each tubing size. They cater to the aviation maintenance professional (AMP) market. That use case is driven by mil-specs and ANSI standards which specify the surface finish for the inside of the tube where it has been beaded. That and the occasional need to bead tubes while still installed to the aircraft drives the tool to be similar to a hand-held tubing cutter.
So to use the large hand-held tool for what I need, I'd have to get the $150 tool with 1.25" die set installed, AND order the 1.5" die set for an additional $70-$80.

They are shortly (next week) coming out with a vice-mounted tool for the automotive market that is operated by a hand-crank. This tool uses one die set to bead from 1" to 6" diameter tube. It is operated by a crank. Because the inner die has to have "traction" to turn the tube, it is slightly knurled. This marks the inside of the tube and makes the resultant bead not acceptable for aviation use. It's fine for automotive use, however.
That tool will be $225 + free standard shipping... so for the same price as the hand-held tool, I get the capability to do a vastly greater number of sizes.

Their photo montage describing use of their tool also shows use of an ID deburring tool. I've used these tools before, but I don't think I've ever seen them for sale.
Here are a couple of sites which sell their own varieties.
http://www.royalprod.com/product.cfm?catID=7
http://www.noga.com/
http://www.grahamtool.com/wide-range-tu ... pping.aspx

Despite being "on the list" for this tool way back when, I was never recontacted.
Since I'm about to need to bead some 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" tubes for the cooling system, I should get one of these.

Go2Marine can make the cooler I want, but the 3" shell that I need in order to have enough flow area for the Northstar's oil is only available in the "high pressure" configuration. The pressure itself isn't high enough to drive weight in a big way, but it does drive the cost up, although at just under $300, it's not crazy, especially compared to Setrabs and other motorsports oriented options.
They ALSO have mounting clamps, which I'll probably order from them as well, assuming the mounting bolt center distance will work on the 3" side of my 2" x 3" square tubing crossmember.

http://www.go2marine.com/product/99440F ... mount.html

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:39 am

Jegs clamps arrived:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/J3FYr7R.jpg?1[/img]

Mounting foot center distance is 3 3/8", which means I'll have to finagle mounting them to my 2"x3" rectangular tube crossmember just a little bit.

I think I'll mount them with hexagonal riv nuts, like these:
http://rivetnutusa.com/assets/hexnut-fl ... y-inch.pdf

I'll probably end up filing the holes out to hexagonal manually, just for S&G's, just this once. A hexagonal broach is 8" long and $165 from McMaster. Not only is it impossible to use along the 2" dimension of 2x3 rectangular tubing without a corresponding hole in the other side, it's a bit expensive for 6 holes.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:21 pm

Oil chiller has arrived:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/59c5bj6.jpg?1[/img]

3" diameter by 18" long shell and tube core, with 1 1/4" water connection on one end for the Fiero coolant pipe and 1 1/2" water connection on the other end for the Caddy thermostat connection. Oil connections are 3/4" NPT. It weighs too much.
Also includes a ground lug and sacrificial anode drainplug since it's built to my specs, but intended for marine use.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by Shaun41178(2) » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:49 pm

Since outlining isnt working if you attach the photos we can see them without copy pasta

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:43 pm

I'll have to see if I can allow attachments from a web address.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:02 am

Thoughts on upcoming suspension engineering:

Spherical bearing sleeves for Fiero control arms

http://phpbb.realfierotech.com/viewtopi ... 81#p149781
Rod End considerations from New Hampshire Ball Bearing

I have most of the design for the spherical bearing sleeves completed. One sleeve design will be usable for '84-'87 RCA's & '84-'88 FLCA's.
I need to dig my sketch out of storage so that I can build the model in OnShape.
I had previously discussed with NHBB about their spherical bearings with integral seals.
However, based on a friend of my dad's success with Rod End Supply XM rod ends with teflon liners lasting over 10 years without seals on the rear of his Mini, I will look into the spherical bearing version of those. The dimensions will be similar, of course.
I will still use basic shaft seals, since the '84-'87 rear and '88 front both have coaxial pivots that will only rotate the spherical bearing around its axis.

Once I figure out my rod end selection and fitment, I can have the first dozen produced for use on The Mule and the Storm Trooper.

http://phpbb.realfierotech.com/viewtopi ... 34#p151034
Motorcycle caliper piston dust boots

Since there don't seem to be any motorcycle caliper piston dust seals in the size range I need, I might be able to find something in the realm of an old wheel cylinder dust boot. I ran across a post on an off-road fabrication forum in which someone used one for a rod end boot. That's not exactly my application, but it may be workable.

This need applies to the FLCA of the '84-'87 cars only, since those pivots are not coaxial and will result in off-axis movement of the spherical bearing, thus requiring more flexible seals

OE through bolt ball joints

http://phpbb.realfierotech.com/viewtopi ... 46#p153146
SPC aftermarket through bolt ball joint

http://phpbb.realfierotech.com/viewtopi ... 46#p152246
Specs of Lemforder Mercedes ball joint
The Dark Side of Will wrote: The shell diameter of the Lemforder ball joint mics out at 1.5764 (40mm) and the length is 1.8893 (48mm).
http://phpbb.realfierotech.com/viewtopi ... 04#p149904
Lemforder through bolt ball joint specs from BMW's
The Dark Side of Will wrote:Moused through all 596 pages of the A-B volume of the Lemforder catalog (Alfa, Audi, BMW and 1 page of Buick China)

Picked out the following "through bolt ball joints":

Lemforder 13208-01
45.2mm OD, 56.7mm long (12mm ID)
BMW:
33 32 1 138 722
33 32 1 140 345
33 32 6 775 551
The Mercedes ball joint has an unusually small OD for its 14mm ID, which makes it a good candidate for retro-fitting into rubber bushing applicatons... it's just not quite small enough to use in the Fiero control arms
The BMW ball joint called out above has a 12mm ID, but is not quite 1/4" larger on the OD. I guess I'll still stick with the Mercedes unit when I build my own control arms.

Brake package specifications

http://phpbb.realfierotech.com/viewtopi ... 72#p149972
Wilwood parking brake rotor hat specs
The Dark Side of Will wrote: Wilwood PN 170-10108: http://www.wilwood.com/Hats/HatProd.asp ... =170-10108
6.69 shoe ID, 5x100 hub, Subaru, 8x7.78 rotor bolt circle (now we're talking!)

Wilwood PN 170-10961: http://www.wilwood.com/Hats/HatProd.asp ... =170-10961
6.31" shoe ID, 5x4.72 (?) hub, "Backdraft Cobra Rear", 8x7.78 rotor bolt circle
http://phpbb.realfierotech.com/viewtopi ... 69#p150169
Specifics of E30 parking brake drum dimensions
The Dark Side of Will wrote:The inside depth of the '88 E30 rotor is 2.065".
The depth of the parking brake friction surface from the inner edge is 1.195".
Wilwood package
Rotors & Calipers:
I've been evaluating how to build a cost-effective Wilwood brake package for The Mule, and ultimately other Fieros.
The Ultralite 32 Curved Vane rotor at 12.19" x 1.25" with 8 x 7.62" Rotor Bolt Circle (RBC) costs $81 from Wilwood, so it's pretty economical as high performance consumables go.
The DynaPro Dust Boot caliper works with that rotor, is intended for street applications, and thus has dust boots, but does not have staggered pistons and is not listed for 1.25" thick rotors.
Wilwood builds dust booted calipers with piston diameters of 1.12, 1.25, 1.38 & 1.62", so they should be able to build me DynaPro dust boot calipers with staggered pistons. Building some thick enough for 1.25" rotors is just a matter of putting enough spacers between the caliper halves.

Hats & Parking brake:
Also, there are a limited number of rotor hats for the 8 x 7.62 RBC. The most notable of which are quoted above... using either the BMW E30 or Subaru drum in hat parking brakes. Those are shown with 8x7.78 RBC, but Wilwood should be able to make a pair with the 8x7.62" RBC. They should end up around 5.7# each in cast iron, but if Wilwood will make mine in aluminum, they might be cheaper and save another 5-6# of unsprung weight across the pair.
I originally wanted to use the GM 7.48" drum-in-hat p-brake from a Corvette, but that obviously won't work with a 7.62" RBC.
I have some basic measurements of the E30 hat above, and it looks too deep to use with the 42mm flange offset common across the the Fiero (5x100), A-body (5x115) and Corvette (5x4.75) bearing hubs. I'll investigate the Subaru system. I may have to have even more custom rear hats made in order to package within the available depth. I would also get these made with both 5x115 and 5x4.75" bolt circles to tide me over until I upgrade to the Corvette wheel bearing in the future.

Wilwood has a "Pro-Street" multi-pattern front hat in aluminum that looks useful. I probably have to have a set made with a custom offset, though.

Cheap production package
An alternative system I spec'd used LS1 F-body front rotors and calipers all around. Those rotors are shared with the 2nd generation W-bodies. Since the F-bodies used 5x4.75 and the W-bodies used 5x115, the rotors have an intermediate bolt circle with holes large enough to be used with both wheel patterns. Thus I could use them on the front with 5x4.75" pattern in my Street Dreams hubs, as well as on the rear with my 5x115 hubs under the bolt circle adapters. This system would not use a parking brake at all, and I'd just hope I could get the car through inspection without it. The rotors are 12" x 1.25".

System comparisons

The cheap system would cost $750 and weigh 116.4 lbs, not including caliper adapter brackets.
The Wilwood system would cost $1900 using catalog prices and weigh 76 lbs, not including caliper adapter brackets, but also not including the parking brake shoes and mechanism.
I spec'd both systems with Porterfield R4-S pads.
Shipping costs were excluded from overall price.

So the Wilwood system would allow me to save over 40# of unsprung weight, at an incremental cost of $1150. The figure of merit is $28.44 per pound of weight saved.

Now I need to go spec my clutch and other weight saving measures. The problem with trying to do that level of analysis with the clutch is that I need to make the flywheel, so I don't yet know how much it weighs.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:43 am

BMW "First Family" parking brake applications:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id ... 4411159467

BMW "Second Family" parking brake applications:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id ... 4416761294

BMW "Third Family" parking brake applications:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id ... 4416761293

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:59 am

Relevant info on Subaru parking brakes for a swapper:

http://www.subarugears.com/subabrakes/

The Subie backing plate looks fairly flat.

The BMW backing plate also looks fairly flat:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw ... 211158991/

Although the apply mechanism is anchored to the trailing arm rather than the backing plate.
Pelican's brake shoe replacement how-to does not show the apply mechanism at all.

http://www.101projects.com/BMW/Projects/055/pics.htm

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by ericjon262 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:48 am

if you're still running 84-87 rear suspension, you'll be hard pressed to make C5 calipers and rotors work on the rear, I tried, and determined it would be easier to swap in an 88 cradle and make adapter brackets,

http://phpbb.realfierotech.com/viewtopi ... &start=340

the brackets pictured work, but do require minor clearancing of the 88 upright to work IIRC. nothing liike 84-87 would take. I haven't yet got around to making an acceptable parking brake solution for the swap, but I have a few ideas floating around, as well as a set of C5 drum in hat assemblies that I'm considering. but all of that is riding on what I do with the rear suspension long term. as of right now, I have an 88 cradle installed, but am thinking about a custom engineered setup front and rear. need to hit the book a little more first.

if you want the dimensions for the caliper bracket, I might be able to email them to you.
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:01 pm

I think for the interim I'll go with LT1 Camaro front brakes on the rear. Those calipers and rotors are shared with several GM FWD models in the mid-'90's. They will bolt right up to '96 Trans Sport knuckles, which are a bolt in swap for the '84-'87 Fiero knuckles. Although I've heard the Dustbuster minivans use a larger ball joint shank than the Fiero and FWD A-body, the ball joint itself is a bolt-in swap for the Fiero ball joint.

The 33 spline CV joint from the Dustbusters and the multi-hub hole circle in the rotors should allow me to run Corvette bearings as well.

I'll use LS1 Camaro front brakes in the front, with my Street Dreams knuckles and adapter brackets I've already developed.

While I'm running that setup, I'll perfect the parking brake arrangement to use with my forthcoming fabbed rear knuckles.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by ericjon262 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:19 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:I think for the interim I'll go with LT1 Camaro front brakes on the rear. Those calipers and rotors are shared with several GM FWD models in the mid-'90's. They will bolt right up to '96 Trans Sport knuckles, which are a bolt in swap for the '84-'87 Fiero knuckles. Although I've heard the Dustbuster minivans use a larger ball joint shank than the Fiero and FWD A-body, the ball joint itself is a bolt-in swap for the Fiero ball joint.

The 33 spline CV joint from the Dustbusters and the multi-hub hole circle in the rotors should allow me to run Corvette bearings as well.

I'll use LS1 Camaro front brakes in the front, with my Street Dreams knuckles and adapter brackets I've already developed.

While I'm running that setup, I'll perfect the parking brake arrangement to use with my forthcoming fabbed rear knuckles.
are you sure about the transport knuckles? I had a set years ago and seem to remember them having large protrusions coming off the casting preventing them from working with anything other than stock transport brakes.
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:09 pm

For '93-'97, the Camarobirds and Dustbusters share front brakes.
The <'93 brakes are different than the '94-'97 brakes, though. The Trans Sport only went through '96, but those rotors/calipers were used on a BIG chunk of GM's FWD product line.

The LS1 Camarobird rotors were shared with FWD cars as well, although the plebians used crappier calipers.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:56 pm

Picked up a set of Dustbuster knuckles, 33 spline hubs and axles today from the local junk yard.
I got the axles and hubs apart, then pounded the hubs out of the knuckles. I'll get the knuckles blasted and painted probably Friday.

I only smacked the housings of the hubs, so the bearings should be fine.
I'll pull the 33 spline CV's off the Dustbuster axles and check to see if they'll install on Fiero shafts.
As mentioned, the rotors and calipers are shared withe LT1 F-bodies, so options are available. I can get Raybestos pre-coated rotors for corrosion resistance, Porterfield R4-S pads and Powerstop stock replacement calipers that are ALREADY POWDER COATED FUCKING RED BITCHES!

:-D

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:51 pm

I think I have the difficult side figured out. These are set up in approximately the same relationship they'd have in the car. Looking at just under 5" of hose to connect the two hose ends.

Image

Now... how should I set up the other leg of the circuit?

The simplest way would be with a 90* hose end off the filter adapter with another of the blue fittings on the other cooler connection, along with a straight hose end.
However, the 90 on the filter adapter wouldn't line up with the blue fitting on the cooler and the hose would have to take up for it. Does anyone make 75* hose ends? That would be about perfect. It would probably work just fine with a 45 as well.

ETA: There *are* 60 degree hose ends on the market, but not in the Summit branding in which I bought the hose ends I already have. I'll end up with one mismatched fitting. Sigh.

ETA2: I'll probably need to get it mounted in the car before I can finish the return leg. The engine mount and bracket are right there and will be finnicky to work around.

Other possibilities? Just bend the hose around?


Image

Also the blue Russell fitting is a disaster inside. They literally drilled holes that intersected for half the ID and did no finishing operations.

It's 0.608 ID, so I should be able to finish it with a 5/8" ball end mill and see-saw a strip of sandpaper through to smooth out the inside radius of the bend.


Image

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:56 pm

Inching toward a complete plumbing solution for the oil cooler. The second blue fitting arrived at my dad's house today, but I won't be back there until the weekend. The mock up needs to put the cooler a little higher, so the 90 degree hose end won't end up in as perfect a position as it looks like it does. It will probably be good enough, but I may have to have an "extended" M20x1.5 to -12 AN adapter made locally in order to get it "just so".

Image

Image

Image

Image

Here are the prototype strut clamp extension plates. Yes, they do look like freaked out artistic silhouettes.
These should provide MORE than enough clearance for the 18x10.5 C5 ZO6 wheels. I'm gunning for 18x11, BUT that will significantly reduce the amount of negative camber available because the inboard side of the strut will scrape the body when the suspension is at full droop.
HOWEVER, that's not the end of the world, as the control arm can be extended for greater camber, while keeping the ultra-tight top edge clearances for the 11" wheel and 315 tire intact. I may have to go ahead and build a prototype extended control arm in order to get these strut plates right, but once I have them right, they'll be RIGHT. :-x :-D

Image

Image

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:31 am

Have a little tuning up to do on this design, but not bad for the first try:

Image

Image

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:44 pm

Somewhat better mockup with the second blue fitting.
You can see that on the return side there's some offset between the two ends in each axis. I'll just have to get the oil filter adapter into the car to see if the 90 degree hose end clears the engine mount, but this overall looks very viable.

Image

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