progress on the banshee...

[ericjon262]

Ls7 lifters don't fit, but my point is they are hydraulic and work just fine at 7k rpm from the factory.

No need to go mechanical. My opinion.

I will agree that it's not a need as much of a want. my current issue is less of a performance issue, and more of a NVH issue. every set of 60V6 lifters I've had in the car have been noisy, and I don't like it, if they're going to be noisy, they're gonna be solid.

I was hoping to make another trip to the track last night, unfortunately, life happens and I didn't get around to fixing the issue with the fuel system causing the car to go lean. Hopefully I can get it apart and back together for Thursday night and we'll see some action.

[ericjon262]

well, I cleaned my fuel filter, there was some particulate in it, but not enough for me to consider that it was the problem with the engine going lean up top. I reinstalled it, drove to work and made a couple of cautious pulls and found that it was not the problem. looks like I'll be dropping the tank and inspecting the pump and hose in the tank. I'm going to try and get my spare sending unit assembled and in the new tank, and then I'll just swap the whole tank. with pump I bought for the Suburban or Gran Damn.

[Shaun41178(2)]

60 lb injectors and 93 pump gas right? What's your fuel pump?

You log your injector duty cycle?

If you're lean add more fuel. See what happens

[ericjon262]

60 lb injectors and 93 pump gas right? What's your fuel pump?

You log your injector duty cycle?

If you're lean add more fuel. See what happens

pump 93 the new injectors I installed are about 82 lb's at my current fuel pressure. there's definitely a problem somewhere, the the lean condition is occurring at lower RPM's and boost levels than I saw on my first track event. it's also going lean with increasing PW.

Peak duty cycle today was about 30% well below anywhere I would expect to have a injector issue. I'm fairly confident it's an issue with the pump or sending unit.

[Shaun41178(2)]

If you increase pw and it doesn't get richer it's your pump or a restriction somewhere.

[ericjon262]

If you increase pw and it doesn't get richer it's your pump or a restriction somewhere.

Right, that, or the line from the pump to the sending unit in the tank is leaking. hearing the pump run today in the parking lot at work, it sounded a little different. Either way I'm going to try and get the pump, tank, and sending unit swapped out, and hopefully fix 2 problems at once, as the sending unit o ring has leaked for a long while and needs replacement.

[ericjon262]

I've been working on a new fuel tank sending unit, the idea is that it will be recessed enough into the tank to use the ballenger wire pass though. in the current configuration, it will have a -8 Supply from the pump(s), and a -6 return, with a -4 vent that will ideally go to a charcoal canister.

The bulkhead fittings passing through will be 45 degree, and then stainless tube from the bulkheads, to the back of the tank.

The top flange is large enough that it should be able accommodate two, or maybe even 3 pumps, but I have no intention of ever putting in more than 2. the bulkhead connector has provisions for 6 wire positions, 4 could be reserved for fuel, and then 2 for the sending unit.

The hole for the sending unit will need to be opened up, and holes drilled, I might split the bottom ring into 2 pieces to make it easier to install.

I'd like some thoughts if you have any...

The top:


the bottom:

[Shaun41178(2)]

If I was to design it, I would have done it pretty much the same way.

That 1 inch depth or maybe 1/2 inch will be enough to allow an AN fitting in a 90 degree to be used without hitting chassis above the tank.

My first design in my head was to reuse the factory lock ring. But I also had a thought of using rivnuts which would allow the existing hole to be cut larger. Which would allow use of 2 pumps side by side

[ericjon262]

If I was to design it, I would have done it pretty much the same way.

That 1 inch depth or maybe 1/2 inch will be enough to allow an AN fitting in a 90 degree to be used without hitting chassis above the tank.

My first design in my head was to reuse the factory lock ring. But I also had a thought of using rivnuts which would allow the existing hole to be cut larger. Which would allow use of 2 pumps side by side

wait? Shaun agrees with a plan I have??? I guess this means back to the drawing board... lol, JK.

The thing I like about using a threaded plate underneath instead of rivnuts, is that the bolt holes can be blind drilled/tapped, and not as likely to be a leak point. if I wanted to be extra, I could put gaskets on both sides, and it would really be leakproof-ish.

[Shaun41178(2)]

How would you get the threaded plate through the sending unit hole to the inside of the tank? ? Make it a two piece part?

[The Dark Side of Will]

How would you get the threaded plate through the sending unit hole to the inside of the tank? ? Make it a two piece part?

That's what the gap is for

[pmbrunelle]

If you make a square or rectangular threaded plate (instead of circular), then it can be inserted through the tank opening without having to flex the part.

The opposite of manhole covers!

For such thick/rigid flanges, I don't think you need so many bolt holes.

[ericjon262]

How would you get the threaded plate through the sending unit hole to the inside of the tank? ? Make it a two piece part?

as Will said, that's the purpose of the slot in the ring. I may cut the ring in half instead though, it would simplify installation and machine work.

If you make a square or rectangular threaded plate (instead of circular), then it can be inserted through the tank opening without having to flex the part.

The opposite of manhole covers!

For such thick/rigid flanges, I don't think you need so many bolt holes.

The big advantage of the parts being round, is that they can be turned on the lathe, which I believe would probably be a faster process than milling. although turning would require multi process work, whereas milling could all be done on one individual machine.

I was actually thinking about drilling 4 of the holes bigger/without the countersink, so that bolts could be installed and hold the inner ring more or less permanently, and allow for removal of the sending unit without removing the inner ring.

as of current, there are 30 holes to secure the top. the top plate, as currently drawn, is 3mm thick, the inner ring is 12 mm. with 10mm deep holes. I'll need to look at gasket and tank thickness to make sure the holes are tapped deep enough to get adequate compression. I've considered going down to 15 holes, I just really don't want it to leak at all, otherwise I have only fixed one thing that isn't currently a problem, and not the thing that is a problem.

[ericjon262]

I took the original concept and made a few adjustments. I redrew the fitting plate and top to fit inside of a piece of 4" .065 tube, and then angled the fitting plate. this makes the overall OD about 1.6mm bigger than I had drawn, but now I can fabricate more of it, faster with my own equipment instead of relying on using other people's, or outsourcing the whole part. making the bottom plate angled helps improve fitment of the wire passthrough, as well as the fittings for the supply, return, and vent fittings. Unfortunately, this also places the largest opening, the passthrough, lower into the tank, where it will be splashed with fuel more often, and be more prone to leaking. In this specific drawing, the angle is 30 degrees, in the current revision, it's 22.5 degrees.

it will still use a bolt ring inside the tank, but I have also updated that design slightly. I decided I will use a 2 piece part, and of the 20 bolt holes in the top, 4 will be reserved specifically for holding the bolt ring in place, and the other 16 will hold the top down tight and hopefully, create a leak free seal.



Later today I'm going to cut the lower plate out on the plasma and play with the angle some. I'd like to make the angle as shallow as possible, yet still get everything as close to the top of the tank as possible so that it fits the car without further modification.

The fuel feed is currently setup to be -8 AN, to mate it to the rest of my fuel system I'll need to step it down to -6 AN, but I would rather have it step down so that I can easily step it up later.

I plan to coat the bare steel parts to prevent corrosion, more on that later.

[ericjon262]

A guy from work asked me to make him a sign for his business, prior to making the sign, I wanted to tune the machine for the material, in this case, 10 GA steel, so I decided to use my tank parts as a trial to make sure I get a nice, clean cut.











I haven't started work on the pump mounts, or the level sender bracket, but I should be able to make that fairly quick. I'm also waiting on a few parts that I don't have yet, and I also need to get another pump if I'm going to install two.

[ericjon262]

design is looking quite promising. I have a mount for the level sensor drawn, as well as twin pumps. I'll weld two coupling nuts to the vertical bar, to allow the lower pump plate to bolt on to capture the two pumps. I can't imagine ever needing more than twin 340 LPH pumps,

[Shaun41178(2)]

I found that getting two pumps side by side through the factory tiny hole is impossible.

[ericjon262]

I found that getting two pumps side by side through the factory tiny hole is impossible.

I think with some very selective clearancing, it wouldn't be impossible, the new sender uses a 102mm hole, which should be more than adequate for my pumps. When I go to modify the tank for the new sending unit, I'll start slow and see how much removal is required to get both in, that being said, if you're not willing to modify the tank, then it doesn't matter anyways.

[ericjon262]

almost done, have a few hiccups to sort out though...

I made the top flange, and inner bolt ring.





originally, I intended on leaving the bottom plate flat, but I wanted to make sure it seals up tight, so I made these bungs for the bulkhead fitting, they house and O-ring which makes a nice, tight seal



I welded the flange on, you'll notice there's four non-counter sunk holes, regular allen head bolts go in those four positions, they'll secure the inner ring to the tank, so that the sending unit can be removed without dropping the ring.




I cut the inner ring in half to permit easier installation.



I needed a way to connect two pumps to one outlet, the pump outlet is 8mm, with a bulge on the end, since 8mm and 5/16 are pretty much the same size, I ordered some stainless 5/16" tubing and used my flare tool with a ISO bubble flare die installed, and partially bubbled the tube



Then I made this block to actually connect it to the outlet with a AN to NPT adapter.



I wasn't too wild with how that was starting to look, so I scrapped it, and remade a similar fitting out of a -8 steel hose end.

it's not perfect, but it's pretty good, I'll install the bubble flares pictured above in it, and it'll be a nice part.



That does bring up the biggest SNAFU. I really need to model more details in my drawings, as currently, the level sender and the pump discharges occupy the same space. I'll remake the level bracket to put it on the other side.



I plasma cut the rest of the parts



and assembled the unit

here is is pictured, minus the second pump, which should be here tonight.



and now the picture to make fiero oweners everywhere cringe:



when I get home from work, I'll start working on opening the hole up and prepping the tank for the new sending unit. hopefully I can have the tank ready to go in by friday.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Why wouldn't you use your old factory tank to cut up first in case you goof?