progress on the banshee...

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ericjon262
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by ericjon262 »

Shaun41178(2) wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:10 pm I think I measured my stock opening at around 3.0 inches. I mocked up a cutout plate to replace the factory hat assembly that measures at about 3.5 inches, but obviously the tank opening is smaller than that.

I am thinking 3.0 to 3.25 range. Twin 450 pumps won't work as they are wider at the base, but it would be real close with twin 255 or even 340. I don't think even then they would fit.

You open up the.opening for the Rodney tank yet? What's your diameter?
I did open up the tank, it's about 4" now, i kinda wish I hadn't though, there's a good possibility I could have made some minor trims and get both pumps in the tank without the massive 4" hole there.

Honestly, if you make a new top hat like I have, I would probably make it an oval shape, and spread the bolt circle to about 125-135mm, as opposed to my 115mm, there's a dimple for the sending unit in the top of the tank that's probably about 105-110mm, and it makes it hard to accurately drill holes in the top of the tank to bolt it down.
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Shaun41178(2)
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Pics
FieroPhrek working on that ls4 swap for 18 years and counting now. 18 years!!!!! LOL

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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

ericjon262
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by ericjon262 »

Shaun41178(2) wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:16 pmPics
I haven't taken any, I've been working alot, I'm hoping to make a bunch of progress on the new sender this week, and hopefully get the new tank in the car.
yeah, I'm way past that, I would definitely take that over anything from the fierostore if i needed a new stock sender.

note for me

Fuel pumps are a and c, level is b
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
ericjon262
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by ericjon262 »

originally, I planned on making the bolt ring stay inside the tank and not weld on the tank, I found that making a weld on ring was easier, and probably a better bet. I made the weld on ring, as well as some nickel acetate, after the ring was finished, I dunked it in the acetate, applied a small current, and nickel plated the bare steel to hopefully keep it from rusting.

Image

I opened the hole up in the top of the tank, and welded it in. The hole was about 135mm

Image

The new top hat fully machined

Image

I soldered in the pump discharge tube, and a ground stud that goes all the way through.

Image

Image

I cut the rest of the parts on the plasma cutter.

Image

After that, I installed the return, and the all thread that would actually hold the pumps in place, and test fit everything.

Image

Image

The into the nickel with the top hat, I wasnt' worried about the tubes or all thread, because the tubes are stainless, and the all thread was zinc plated, so both of those should fair ok from a corrosion standpoint without the nickel plating.

Image

Then I bent the tubes to fit the car.

Image

I soldered the tubes in, wired everything up, fuel pump 1 on terminal "A" the level sender on "B", and fuel pump 2 on "C", and installed it on the tank. what's left? I have compression fittings for the tubes to adapt them to the rest of the fuel system, I also need to made some blocks to go between the tank and the tubes to adequately support them and not stress the solder joints. I'm planning on moving the flexfuel sensor to be closer to the tank/fuel filter, and not on the fuel rail, as well as installing a set of stainless LX9 fuel rails.

Image

Parts used:

https://www.racetronix.biz/p/double-pum ... red/dpc-g6

https://www.racetronix.biz/p/universal- ... y/bcws-001

https://www.highflowfuel.com/quantum-pe ... ces-11569/

https://www.racetronix.biz/p/connector- ... ga/rcs-001

and the appropriate fittings.

Some notes about the nickel plating, I learned about this through a few youtube videos, Turbo_V6 zinc plated a trigger wheel, while looking for a few other videos on zinc, I found nickel was also doable.

Turbo_V6's zinc plating video:

https://youtu.be/O486S9CGhgM

and a helpful nickle plating video:

https://youtu.be/1Uy7QkLI8yU

My results were hit and miss, some parts turned out great, others not so much, I think my acetate may be contaminated with zinc, as some of my parts came out with a very dark finish, and the zinc plated all thread that was exposed to the acetate also turned black. if there's a next time for this, I'll do a few things slightly different:

1. insulate parts that don't need plating, this should help focus the plating on that parts that need it
2. attempt to arrange the anode(s) in such a manner that they present themselves to the entire part, or the largest surface area of the part.
3. increase the number of anodes, so that they surround the part and and more of the part is equidistant to a anode,
4. install a pump to circulate the acetate, and maybe a small filter to prevent solids that come off the anodes from getting to the part to be plated.
5. get a parts tumbler to polish small parts prior to plating, I suspect some of my parts may have had surface contaminants which caused discoloration.
6. acid dip parts prior to plating, which should further help with stripping contaminants.

I'm confident my parts are now corrosion resistant, as can be seen in one of the pictures of the top hat after soldering in the ground stud and the pump discharge pipe, the flux used to solder the parts in cause the steel to rust very quickly, while soldering in the tubes on the outside of the sender, the top hat did not rust.
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Right on dude. Looks like it turned out great
FieroPhrek working on that ls4 swap for 18 years and counting now. 18 years!!!!! LOL

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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Rock on!

When are you starting production?

Better watch out with that nickel acetate, though. If the EPA gets wind of your operation, they'll turn your garage into a superfund site!
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Cerakote in the future might be better?
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Cerakote is thicker, so that would impact tolerances of close fits
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by ericjon262 »

Shaun41178(2) wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:27 pm Right on dude. Looks like it turned out great
The Dark Side of Will wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:59 pm Rock on!
Thanks, There's a few things that I'd do differently if I were to take it on again, and I really should redo the fuel level sender mount, it's too low so it won't get full sweep of the level. it's a detail I'm just going to live with for the time being, and if I ever take it apart again, I'll fix it.

The Dark Side of Will wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:59 pm When are you starting production?
no way, too much end user shenanigans for a production part.

The Dark Side of Will wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:59 pm Better watch out with that nickel acetate, though. If the EPA gets wind of your operation, they'll turn your garage into a superfund site!
well, if they got wind of it, the nickel would probably be the least of my concerns... LOL!

on a serious note, I have been careful to not spill it, and keep it contained for reuse.
Shaun41178(2) wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:04 pm Cerakote in the future might be better?
Maybe, the plating was more of a curiosity than anything else, I wanted to try it, and see what I could make happen, overall, I'm satisfied with the results.


The Dark Side of Will wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:30 pm Cerakote is thicker, so that would impact tolerances of close fits
the fit on these isn't that tight, but that is a good point.
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

ericjon262 wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:32 pm
The Dark Side of Will wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:59 pm When are you starting production?
no way, too much end user shenanigans for a production part.
LOL

It's like you've been in the community or something.

Is there vertical space to mount one pump above the other so that they'd both fit through the stock hole in the tank?
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by ericjon262 »

I don't think there's room to mount them on top of each other like that. I won't say it's impossible, but I also don't like that from an engineering standpoint, pumps don't like pulling, they like pushing.
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

ericjon262 wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:40 pm I don't think there's room to mount them on top of each other like that.
For some reason, space available always runs the show.
ericjon262 wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:40 pm from an engineering standpoint, pumps don't like pulling, they like pushing.
I own a Duramax vehicle in which GM neglected the lift pump... and two vehicles with Benz diesels that run 120 psi lift pumps. Yes, pumps like to push.
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by ericjon262 »

The Duramax suburban is probably getting some kind of lift pump, I haven't decided how extra I want to go with that yet though.
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

Cerakote doesn't go on thick enough for this type of application to cause problems

Fyi, a sprayed part will be about .002 thick. 2 thousandths of an inch. It ain't gonna matter in these fuel parts Will.
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Shaun41178(2) wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:36 pm Cerakote doesn't go on thick enough for this type of application to cause problems

Fyi, a sprayed part will be about .002 thick. 2 thousandths of an inch. It ain't gonna matter in these fuel parts Will.
A 0.004 change in the diameter of a part or hole can definitely screw things up... just depends on the part geometries involved.
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by Shaun41178(2) »

It ain't gonna screw up parts for automotive tolerances. Eric's fiero isn't going to Pluto either.

I've cerakote firearm parts with threads, and everything was able to be screwed back together and tested to work. So there is that I guess.

I am guessing Eric's fuel issues are forever solved. The option of twin 340s with I am assuming 1/2 inch feed line is enough to support over 1k HP on gas and prob 800 with e85 if he ever wanted to try and push that high.
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by pmbrunelle »

What kind of solution do you have for a gasket between the weld ring and top hat?
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by ericjon262 »

pmbrunelle wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:06 am What kind of solution do you have for a gasket between the weld ring and top hat?
the top gasket is expanded PTFE, I figure it should be more than adequate for fuel considering my fuel lines are PTFE lined.
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Re: progress on the banshee...

Post by ericjon262 »

tried starting the car the other day, temps were in the low 30's, looks like cold start needs some work, it didn't want to fire... I went out today and it fired right off though. Once the new tank is in, I'll start driving it more, and try and get cold starts dialed better, and the tune restored from when I wasn't getting enough fuel on my last track outing. for now, I'm going to run a 1/2 line to the fuel filter, and then 3/8 out until I'm ready to tackle the rest of the system, and add in the stainless rails I have. I am planning on moving the flex sensor off of the rail though, and down to the filter to help declutter things by the fuel pressure regulator. I'll probably run new wire and leave the existing wires for the flex sensor in the harness unless I have to take it back apart for some other reason.
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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