project silver - 1987 fiero coupe street car

[michael_h]

project silver - 1987 fiero coupe

june 2023 - first week of ownership

prologue

intro

welcome. long time lurker, dont really post much. this is my first "build thread".. i need a place to consolidate my thoughts and plans in text rather than float around in my head. i figured it would be best written here (RFT) to bounce some ideas and share progress..

i intend for the first 1-3 title posts on this thread to be a "living document".. that is, as I make updates to the car, timeline, etc, those changes will be reflected on here. then just continue on with random build related updates : )

background

my second fiero came in my possession browsing offerup hungover on a sunday morning: “41k miles, 5 speed with a 2.5L motor. my daughter likes the car but is not comfortable driving stick. $7500 obo”. i originally wanted a slicktop 88 notchie, however this car's condition is immaculate - a creampuff. after a couple hours of inspection and some negotiation i managed to take it home for 5000 in july 2023:


i’ve always liked the idea of the fiero: inexpensive, domestic, reliable mid engine rear drive "sports" car. in 2020 i used my first big-boy paycheck on a PoS '87 GT with 101k miles:


i restored the suspension, brakes, and some other parts and took it to autoX twice:


even tho it was a shitbox, holy crap was it fun to hoon.


unfortunately his red GT was a piece of work - the previous owner put a maaco respray on the hood, roof and decklid which was bubbling. the interior rattled like hell. the ac died. the head was rebuilt and the motor burned oil like crazy. mileage was shit and the fuel pump would seppuku after consuming 6 gal of fuel…. and i got prob the worst 282 gearbox popped outta muncie's factory - even the first owner wrote a letter (and kept a CC) complaining of the sticky shifter mech to a pontiac dealer in '88. the sunroof leaked. a lot was wrong with the car.

after 3 years of ownership i bought the silver coupe and sold the red gt.

the car

i've had the silver 87 notchie for 8 months now. the car's been well kept.. the interior and exterior is immaculate. its quiet and comfy to drive and gets good milage.

i took it on a 1500 mile roadtrip to zion and bryce canyon in utah:



i also entered it into the '23 radwood socal show, where i was able to park next to this beautiful sc aw11.


i tried to drive the car up and down gmr/backside a few times. i managed to warp my motors after 1 run down backside. i replaced the pads, rotors, and fluid and still overheat the brakes.. i had to drive with caution on the canyon…even on the freeway, the duke is pretty sketchy. 65->70mph takes, idk, a long time. its a fun cruiser, but thats not my style. i'd like to have a bit more thrill when driving a mid engine 2 seater, and have something that is a bit quicker than a corolla. some changes are in order, and here i am about to start a restomod.


project silver

i decided to approach this "project car" with a goal followed by some requirements. i tried to keep it pretty objective, but ehhh not trying to make this too formal either.. this part is a bit dry, but it's a checklist for myself and get some structure in place

situation

the 87 fiero coupe is an outdated car that cannot keep up with modern cars on the streets and canyon

goal

modify the 87 fiero coupe into a well balanced, street legal sports car.

requirements

some of these are pretty stiff - need to edit/change the wording.

1. the 87 fiero shall undergo a CARB legal motor swap

• the motor may be light weight to maintain the factory weight of 2550 lbs*
• the motor must be common and have aftermarket support
• the motor must attain a power target of 350 hp
• a manual transmission with a limited slip differential shall be used

2. create a big brake kit for the front and rear

• the brakes must retain the factory 50/50 brake bias*
• the master to caliper piston ratio must be the same as factory
• the calipers must be of common type with extensive brake pad selection
• the brake rotors must be vented, and of larger diameter

3. create a "coilover kit" for the 84-87

• Rear 84-88 true adjustables from a reputable company (koni, bilstein, etc)
• Front matching shocks from same line as rear, possibly need adapters

4. front suspension & steering geometry

• decrease steering ratio
• power steering is not out of the realm. c4 vette rack is a possibility.
• re-design on the front geometry
• design an angle kit, 84-87 steering radius is terrible
• bring scrub radius to near-0 value
• <not complete>

5. rear suspension

• '88 swap good enough for now

6. creature comforts

• modernized sound system
• either a retro deck with modified connections (usb/bt) or a nice, premium double din carplay/aauto unit with a backup cam
• circular speakers
• modified subwoofer
• telemetry system connected to obd2 and corner sensors

*i realize some things may be off. 1a: i need to get the car corner balanced (happening soon). 2a. F/R piston size varies by a millimeter, but is otherwise negligible.


current stuff going on

things might move a little slow at times. here is what's currently brewing in the garage:

scca "sts" solo prep
"hows this car at baseline compared to a... miata??"
complete suspension refresh - balljoints, bushings, fieroguru rear coilovers, ws6 rack, cut ws6 front springs, new tierods
17x7.5 wheels wrapped in 225/45 200tw tires for sts spec.
deadline feb 2024, but might be f'cked on 3 month leadtime for enkei pf05 wheels that i want.

brembo big brake kit
"survive the tougee"
utilizing 4pot brembos, 312x25mm rotors, s-10 master cylinder.
hope to sell kits, will include math and calculations later in thread.
deadline april 2024, maybe?

custom coilover kit
"kybs wont cut it"
reading a couple of books to get up to speed, including: chassis engineering, herb adams; tune to win, carrol smith. open to more suggestions, specifically with suspension and chassis design.
hope to sell kits as well, for 84-88. we'll see.
deadline Q4 2024.

better radio
nothing exciting here. but i did get my hands on a factory sub enclosure, so lets see what i can do with it. 6.5" sub would be nice.
4" round rear speakers, 5.25" round front speakers
idk about the radio deck. all these single dins are so gaudy looking. i hate my "modern" sony deck.
also need a single channel amp for the sub. something tiny, 250w rms or similar.
deadline june 2024



thats all for now, i'll update this page as i go!

[Emc209i]

Welcome.

Great goals. Do the 5.25 component setup in the front, really transforms the audio.

[michael_h]

Welcome.

Great goals. Do the 5.25 component setup in the front, really transforms the audio.

hi! yes, i saw fierosound's posts on his template, and i plan to use it to fit in 5.25" up front and 4" in the rear. sourced a sub enclosure that i will mod for 6.5" woofer from LVFC.

[michael_h]

going for sts class in scca
understanding the baseline
before i start modifying the car, i want to understand the baseline. yeah i've had the red gt for 3 years (well, running for 8 months of those 3 years lol), but i wanted to start over, a clean slate. i figured the most economical way to understand how the fiero handles and performs is by taking it to an autocross event. after a year of seat time, i should have a well understanding of how the car handles. and i wont warp my rotors like on gmr : d

i took the fiero to an autox practice day with corner exit last weekend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuGsNwrtB1g
(can we embed yt links here?)

driving impressions:
the springs are super soft (known issue)
the oem shocks are blown (very obvious)t.
there was a "skidpad" obstacle. the front end plows thru it.
oh, and the steering ratio is… terrible. i was doing full 360 deg rotations on the slaloms. not good for my wrists lol.

i did previously rebuild the brake system (softlines, calipers, rotors, bosch pads, dot4), so those were fine-ish. locking my wheels was a bit difficult - 225/45 front and 235/45 rear conti ecs02+ rubber wrapped around 17x8 konig wheels.

but the event itself was fun. i got to meet new peeps in the autox scene and plow around some cones!
street touring sport - an uphill battle
after going to the practice autoX, i decided to "build" the fiero into an scca sts class car for 2024. its not much work, basically a class for bolt on upgrades. puts me up against those 90s civics and na miatas - a perfect comparison to the fiero. and an uphill battle.

running in sts lets me develop the (allowed) brembo bbk, the coilover kit, and drive a lightly modified car for a year straight.

that leads me to this:

(some stuff not pictured)

sts prep list
front
ws6 gt springs, cut 1 coil, paired with kyb replacement shocks
ws6/gt steering rack/pinion, rebuilt and retensioned
new rubber lca bushings, including revised rearward design
poly uca and fsb bushings
RD zero lash links
new balljoints, inner/outer tie rods
fierostore 1" fsb

rear
fieroguru's coilover kit (bought from fbmp) paired with 350 lbin springs
cambolt
poly lca bushings
new ball joints, inner/outer tie rods

wheels
enkei pf05 17x7.5 et45
wrapped in conti ecs02+

and later in the year, the brembo bbk + custom valved "coil-overs"
there's a 3 month lead on the wheels.. so i might just compete in a "time only class" until the wheels come in. my current aftermarket konig wheels are 8" which is illegal in sts : L

[ericjon262]

welcome to the board! always nice to see a new name around.

what are you looking at for engine choices? as I understand it, CARB legal swaps can be quite difficult.

[jelly2m81]

Welcome aboard! I'm a sucker for a clean silver late body style coupe.

I know why your target weight is to keep it where it is, I had a clean Silver 88 5 spd bare bones coupe, although not quick nor fast, it was super fun, super nimble handling.

[michael_h]

welcome to the board! always nice to see a new name around.

what are you looking at for engine choices? as I understand it, CARB legal swaps can be quite difficult.

hi! getting it CARB is a process, from what i understand as long as all emissions are intact and the job isnt botched, getting approved isnt too hard, maybe getting sent back home a few times to fix something.

as for engine choices, the vw 20v 1.8t from a mk4 golf/jetta is what i have my eyes on. iron block, aluminum head. came in millions of now-cheap cars with a lotta tuner support. with a tune on the stock borgwarner k03s the motor can put down 230hp/250lbft, which is a good start. my first car in highschool was a $2000 mk4 gti and it was a fun machine with upgraded k04 turbo and simple bolt ons.

Welcome aboard! I'm a sucker for a clean silver late body style coupe.

I know why your target weight is to keep it where it is, I had a clean Silver 88 5 spd bare bones coupe, although not quick nor fast, it was super fun, super nimble handling.

hi! yeah, tossing the car around in the slalom was fun, you can really feel the lack of weight. really curious how it competes against the miatas and civics.. it’ll be interesting

[The Dark Side of Will]

Welcome!
Yes, Fieros look great in silver. I've never owned one that color, unfortunately, but I like to see them that way.

Series8217 has done a CARB legal LQ1 swap. I messaged him this thread.

[Series8217]

Hey Michael! Will just sent me a link to your thread.. happy to see you on here! Car looks great. Let's hang soon.

[michael_h]

Welcome!
Yes, Fieros look great in silver. I've never owned one that color, unfortunately, but I like to see them that way.

Series8217 has done a CARB legal LQ1 swap. I messaged him this thread.

hello! yeah although i'm not the biggest monochrome guy, i've always been a bit fond of silver.

i've been in some contact with series8217 on fb, i figured then it was time to actually engage in some more technical boards :^)

Hey Michael! Will just sent me a link to your thread.. happy to see you on here! Car looks great. Let's hang soon.

yo! finally here. yes, car is almost back on the ground - we need to do a little comparison of stock vs. mod. hope to see you soon!

[michael_h]

sts car prep, pt1
i've been working on the car with whatever time i could scavenge after work. i'm almost done - just have some final touches to do then the car can go back on the ground. i took some pictures of whats all been brewing in my garage. lotsa photos below.

here's how it looks right now. all thats left is to swap the ws6/gt rack guts into the stock one, attach the fsb, xmember braces, drop the car, let the suspension settle, eyeball the rear height adjustment, then torque down the front lca bushings, since i pressed in rubber replacements



detailed di- and re-assembly
started jan 17

rear right


rear left, taken apart


cv axle spline nice and clean. i put some anti seize on it during reassembly for good measure


rear lca bushings were perfect. after some consideration, i decided to replace it with poly anyways. the inner metal sleeves projectile'd 10' into the air when torching them. kinda funny, really sketch.


i decided against replacing the rear lca bj. they were still stiff, and moved smoothly. drilling out the rivets and all that work seemed unnecessary. instead i picked off all the grease, wirebrushed the extra gunk, soaked the lca in some 505 degreaser. cleaned the bj of old grease and stuffed new grease in


i decided to replace the front lca with rubber, due to how the pivot axis in early fieros are. the ogre did a writeup on front lca bushings, and how there is a special moog rear lower replacement that is thicker than the front. well, i found a nos k6163 kit on ebay (pictured left), and it (fortunately) came with 2 revised rears, instead of 1x revised rear and 1x regular front. the fiero store's kit (pictured right) did not come shipped correctly - they provded 2x fronts of different brands. after doing some more online searching, i found a company called "rare parts" that make the fronts (and rears, which i did not need). autozone had them for the cheapest price, so i ordered 2x of those (pictured center). then i returned the ones from the fiero store, eating the extra shipping. their products seem to be hit-or-miss.



guru's rear coilover kit vs stock thicc bois


rd's 0 lash fsb mount, that i scavenged off my 87 gt. i put about 10k miles on them, and the joints are still good. a bit looser than new, but no play, and pivoting is still smooth. the lca joint is noticeably looser than the fsb joint. his kit has these collar'ed washers (gold in picture). the lca collar is more shallow than the fsb collar (one in picture). i do wish the lca collar was as as deep as the fsb collar, but all good regardless. seems like he mfg these with cots parts, so servicing these (if needed in the future) shouldnt be hard if we know where to look.


front suspension assym. leaky shock. removing the long spring is always a good time.



this is how the car looked after 2 days of work, jan 18


jan 19~
here's the dumb way to remove a bushing, causing a big mess on my concrete. i spent like 30 mins scrubbing the floor with 505 and a steel wire brush, and all the gunked rubber came off. lol. still made for some kewl pics


the other 11 bushings i removed properly. heat up the inner sleeve, push it out, then pry off the remaining rubber from the outer sleeve. then i used a small sawzall to gently cut a sliver into the outer sleeve, collapse it with a hammer, and push it out


all the control arms cleaned up


one of the front lca bj was near death. eek


front lca all ready for machine shop to press in new bj and bushings


i realized i didnt take pics of the new bushings and bj pressed in the front. w/e.

cont. next post

[michael_h]

sts car prep, pt2
jan 20-28

rd's beefi rear tie rod vs stock. the stock inner and outer joints had no play, however were not "smooth". looking back i wonder if regreasing them would of revived the smoothness. w/e, i had the part leftover from the old car, so might as well put it in and enjoy before i swap the cradle to an 88

i wonder why rd machine'd this plate instead of using a washer, like stock.


lowering the front cradle - time to remove the rack and cut the bump stops. the front lca had a rubber impression on the lower spring cup. i must have been riding on them during autox/sketchy canyon croozin.


all out.


my cam bolt wouldnt go to the max notch for the rear strut, so i scribed area to notch out. after talking to series8217, i could of just notched the washer. but too late.





scribbled 1" cut marks on the bumpstops to cut off


end result after taking it to the local muffler shop. quoted 50 bucks. i sorta cleaned their welds up with an old flap disk i had laying around. then rattle can'd it



i also notched the front uca bj mount. 3mm notch, plus took some material off the corner of the bj, following a writeup by rd. sealed with some paint. i'll be monitoring the uca closely during shakedown and after events.





i cut the front ws6 gt springs by 1 coil. these were spare springs i had laying around from my old gt. i'm reading conflicting reports online of how much of a drop these will give. i am aiming for 35mm. so if i need to cut another 1/8 - 1/4 i will in the future.


front k member going back up, with new 10.9 hw


junkyard ws6/gt rack arrived in the mail (pictured top). i paid them $140 for the rack, a left front 84-87 spindle, and shipping from indiana to socal. did a quick test, and it is in fact a tighter rack (3 turns lock, vs notchie 3.5 turns lock). this will save my wrists during autox and canyon hooning.


removing the inner rods on a vise is so much easier. i prob should of held it by the rack itself to prevent gear damage. i did this before by holding the rack housing (bolted on car - i didnt have a bench vise before). didnt have any issues. should be fine.


rust belt was not nice to this rack. the bellows were a bit compromised on right side. luckily the rack is polished, and all this crud will clean off with some 505 and maaaaaybe a polish


interesting note - the right side steering stabilizer mount has a different plastic "stop" piece from 86 to 87. 87 piece is just a "washer" wheras the 86 is molded. or maybe its a gt vs notchie difference.


all the steering parts laid out. couldnt continue because my ring pliers were too large to fit - i got a couple "workpro" branded ones arriving tomorrow from that one e-retailer with next day shipping.


i eyeballed the tie rods so i dont die while driving to the alignment shop


the rack is basically the last piece of the puzzle before an initial shakedown.

i put everything else together, and did some cleaning while there. stuff like removing the fender liner (for another reason too), making things just look nice so when i go back its not a greasy mess.





and that brings me back here to this pic

[ericjon262]

Fwiw, I did a tape measure alignment on my car. I set camber with an angle finder, then measured to the wheel faces for toe. Tire wear has been acceptable, and the car drove great.

[Shaun41178(2)]

I like where this is going. Great documentation

[The Dark Side of Will]

Fwiw, I did a tape measure alignment on my car. I set camber with an angle finder, then measured to the wheel faces for toe. Tire wear has been acceptable, and the car drove great.

There's essentially no caster adjustment in the early front end... So if your tub and crossmember are straight and you set the caster shims on both sides the same, it'll probably be close enough. Everything else can be set as you did.

[michael_h]

I like where this is going. Great documentation

thanks!

Fwiw, I did a tape measure alignment on my car. I set camber with an angle finder, then measured to the wheel faces for toe. Tire wear has been acceptable, and the car drove great.

There's essentially no caster adjustment in the early front end... So if your tub and crossmember are straight and you set the caster shims on both sides the same, it'll probably be close enough. Everything else can be set as you did.

aye, i'm looking into getting the car on some corner weights. i can only adjust the rear end height, so it will be a minimal adjustment mostly F-R bias and maaaybe a little cross weight.

[michael_h]

sts car prep pt3
almost done with all the work. got the car on the ground. needs an alignment and new wheels to get to spec


got the gt rack and regular rack guts compared. gt on bottom. teeth on rack more spaced out, measruement are 10 divots. pinion gear is also wider in diameter.







the gt rack was more fcked than i thought. small hole in bellow caused salt to get in, rack was pitted. cleaned it up. tried to slide rd's brass bushing. it did not slide well. used some 320 and 400 grit sandpaper to smoothen it out. bushing slides well now



i compared rd's brass bushing to my stock one. 49.89mm inner dia on rds. 49.95 on my stock one. measured about 3 times. so i did not use rd's bushing.

swapped the guts, following the fsm for rack alignment. put the car back on the ground - sat too high for my liking. cut another 1/4 spring (now 1.25 coils cut. 35mm wheel to fender on the front, 45mm wheel to fender on the rear.

rear toe was pretty messed up.


eyeballed the alignment and got it mostly fixed, well enough to get me around town with the steering wheel sitting at 2 o'clock. drives straightish tho.



and here's the final shot


gonna take a small break from wrenching on the car this weekend. alignment and all that next week, then look into the bbk.

[zok15]

Looking good! Are those Konig Countergrams? What size(s)? I would be interested in buying them from you if you do go to a different wheel and tire combo.