The Dark Side of Will wrote:EBSB52 wrote:
HUH? I asserted the US is Imperialistic, you rejected it, I posted at least 1, maybe 2 different definitions as I recall, you then said that you didn't like that definition of Imperialisma nd ran away from the thread.
I put that "debate" down because getting into anything with you is a waste of time. No matter what I say, you will still be convinced of your point of view, and you hide behind accusations of "brainwashing", etc.
Ed or Eb or whatever your name is, you're the one who doesn't know how to argue. Your accusation of Imperialism is based on a definition that I have shown to be invalid by demonstrating that it allows what is contrary to reality.
This is called proof by contradiction and is very common in mathematical circles.
Since it appears to be necessary to do so, I'll spell it out for you.
Mexican people have entered the US in the millions illegally. Our economy is dependent on them. They influence our political process and are changing our culture and language without being citizens or paying taxes. The pull US money out of the country without any sort of trade... This fits your definition of imperialism, yet by your own admission, the US relationship with Mexico is not imperialistic in either direction.
That is all I have to say about that. Don't bother trying to bait me any more.
You walked away from the argument, sweetcheeks.
I put that "debate" down because getting into anything with you is a waste of time.
Ad Hominem. I post definitions from objective sources and now you give me this crap about nothing ever being fully proveable, hence you can't be wrong.
No matter what I say, you will still be convinced of your point of view, and you hide behind accusations of "brainwashing", etc.
No, I don’t want to hear about Will’s life experiences or opinions. I want to read objective data that defines things, entities, etc… As for you being brainwashed, that’s not my argument that the US is Imperialistic, just my pinion of you and most military folks.
Your accusation of Imperialism is based on a definition that I have shown to be invalid by demonstrating that it allows what is contrary to reality.
OK, where is what you have to show its invalidity? I have never read it.
Here are definitions of Imperialism:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=imperialism
im·pe·ri·al·ismPronunciation Key (m-pîr--lzm)
n.
The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.
The system, policies, or practices of such a government.
imperialism
n 1: a policy of extending your rule over foreign countries 2: a political orientation that advocates imperial interests 3: any instance of aggressive extension of authority
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/imperialism
imperialism
One entry found for imperialism.
Main Entry: im·pe·ri·al·ism 
Pronunciation: im-'pir-E-&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : imperial government, authority, or system
2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power,
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/imperialism.html
im·pe·ri·al·ism [ im pree ə lìzzəm ]
noun Definitions:
1. belief in empire-building: the policy of extending the rule or influence of a country over other countries or colonies
2. domination by empire: the political, military, or economic domination of one country over another
3. takeover and domination: the extension of power or authority over others in the interests of domination
cultural imperialism
Here are examples of Imperialism:
http://www.answers.com/topic/history-of ... mperialism
- According to some who argue the U.S. has been imperialistic, the first step on the road to imperialism was the conquest of the Native American peoples who inhabited North America.
- The Mexican-American War from 1846 to 1848 is often viewed as motivated by American imperialism. In 1846, President James K. Polk sent soldiers to the disputed zone between Mexico and the newly annexed Republic of Texas in what most historians describe as a provocation for war.
- The late nineteenth century is the era which most historians consider to be that of imperialism. Starting as early as the 1870s the United States began to aggressively expand its influence overseas. The annexation of Hawaii and the fall-out from the Spanish-American War saw the United States very closely adopt the European model of empire.
- The Kingdom of Hawaii was long an independent monarchy in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. During the nineteenth century first American missionaries and then American business interests began to play a major role in the island. Most notable were the powerful fruit companies, such as Dole Pineapple. After a coup financed and directed by American interests overthrew the isolationist Queen Lili‘uokalani, the island became a republic in 1894 and in 1898 Hawaiian President Sanford Dole agreed to his nation's annexation by the United States. The republic ended in 1900 and the country became a territory of the US.
- The Philippine-American War (1899 to 1913) is often cited as another instance of United States imperialism. While many Filipinos were initially delighted to be rid of the Spanish rule of the Philippines, the guerrilla fighters soon found that the Americans were not prepared to grant them much more autonomy than Spain had. Thus for the next six years American forces engaged in a war in the jungles of the Philippines against the Filipino resistance. The war was expensive and quite unpopular in the United States, but eventually victory was attained.
- The most notable aspects of this period tend to be American military interventions in areas such as Vietnam, Grenada, and Iraq. Many would argue, however, that
cultural and economic imperialism had far greater effects.
- Late 20th century
While for most of the United States' history imperialism has been a term used by critics to decry American policies, in recent years some have adopted the view that some forms of imperialism are desirable. Michael Ignatieff argues that American interventions should enforce intrinsic notions of human rights, and should have a form of "Empire Light" to do so. On the right-wing there are now thinkers who believe the United States should aggressively pursue a sort of democratic imperialism, these include Paul Wolfowitz and William Kristol.
OK, I’m a dick and you’re a brainwashed piece of shit, now let’s argue the merits based upon the data I proved and/or some you can provide. I’ve provided 3 dictionary definitions and 1 encyclopedic version, so just ignore it and run along little brainwashed boy - just like before. Oh, is Webster biased? Is MSN dictionary biased? Don’t be a joke.
Were the settlers building an empire by conquering and suppressing the American Indians? Were we Imperialists when we snatched Hawaii? Are we Imperialists that dangle fish in front of needy countries for use of land, ideology, support, etc? And then there’s this:
“On the right-wing there are now thinkers who believe the United States should aggressively pursue a sort of democratic imperialism, these include Paul Wolfowitz and William Kristol.â€
