Flexible lines to large injectors?

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:16 am

Lately, I've been contemplating my options for fuel delivery to the injectors on my SD4. As you can see in this picture, the injector bosses are not parallel to each other.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/F ... CF0009.jpg
In a addition to that, because of the angle, two injectors will extend further away from the head than the other two. This has basically eliminated the standard extruded rail system. So, I've been looking at other options. Namely, a couple of items from MSD, to use flexible lines to the injectors. http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_9.htm
I think that this would throw normal out of the box, which is something that I have been striving for during this swap. I am also using 75 lb/hr injectors, however. How do you think flexible lines would behave compared to a fixed system? Would there be adverse pulsation? What are other options? Being pretty is something to consider, too. I've been getting bored with the run of the mill thinking over on the other side.

Nate

donk_316 · Post by **donk_316** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:08 pm

What about a 2 piece solid rail with a SS braid line connecting them?

See what i mean?

:::::::::

The "I" being injector points.
The ":" being the SS braided line.
The "[===]" being hard line.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:59 pm

Indy wrote:. How do you think flexible lines would behave compared to a fixed system? Would there be adverse pulsation? What are other options? Being pretty is something to consider, too. I've been getting bored with the run of the mill thinking over on the other side.

Nate

Flex lines would have no adverse affects on the fuel system as long as the line is rated for the psi that would be run. For examble use fuel line. Thast tested to 100+ psi

No adverse pulsation.

Donk has a pretty good idea there. I was also thinking of just all flex line thoughout. I scanned over the pics from the link you posted very briefly so not sure if you could use anythign there.

With a full flex line you would need like a injector connector that would perhaps have two male ends on each side to route the fuel rail line into. Then have the opening for the injector facing down. I dont' remember if I saw anything on that MSD link or not.

Or you can go with an idea like Donks, or a system based loosely off of that. Or maybe have a hardline in between the two middle injectors and a braided line in between the other two injectors spaced fairly close to each other. Like I said something loosely based off of Donks idea might work well.

But I will say flex line esp braided fuel line wont' have any adverse effects on your fuel system as opposed to a standard aluminum hard line.

Run of the mill on the other forum? No. You dont' say?

I have been following your swap since the beginning. At first I was very skeptical if you would ever get this done. However you have come along ways since then and I applaud you for that. You are spending the money and doing it right. You are researching the parts you need which is very good. Most people over there just dream of what they could build if they weren't making $10k a year. So I am very happy to see this project movign along nicely. Even if you dont' get a turbo on it, it will be a badass engine setup. I always had a soft spot for the SD4 motors. I thought they were always pretty cool for a 2 valve pushrod motor out of the 80's.

Have you had any ideas on how to route the fuel line? Maybe we could brainstorm something here.

donk_316 · Post by **donk_316** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:14 pm

If this ever gets referenced over at Old Europe the fuel rail MUST be reffered to as "DONKS RAIL" not to be confused with the neat little white lines on my table...

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:21 pm

Hehe. Fine Donk.
Here's another pic of the manifold from a better angle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/F ... CF0385.jpg

But braided line is tho expenthive!
I've got about about 15ft of -4AN and about 15ft of assorted other stuff sitting around doing nothing. Using it is okay with me. (Actually, I was going to sell it and get a tractor motor.)

I was looking at these:

The pockets that go with them:

And the clips that hold the top pieces to the pockets:

Then, use a Y-block after my regulator(it's a return style, so that saves some trouble), mounted on the driver's side somewhere. Then just run them like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/F ... rLine1.jpg
It's a good thing I'm better at plumbing than Paint.
Or, like this, using the straight injector mounts from MSD on the outside injectors:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/F ... rLine2.jpg

Any other ideas?

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:24 pm

You could run them all up from below the manifold... might make it look cleaner...

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:47 pm

Indy wrote:Hehe. Fine Donk.

Then, use a Y-block after my regulator(it's a return style, so that saves some trouble), mounted on the driver's side somewhere. Then just run them like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/F ... rLine1.jpg
It's a good thing I'm better at plumbing than Paint.
Or, like this, using the straight injector mounts from MSD on the outside injectors:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/F ... rLine2.jpg

Any other ideas?

Hmm thats not a bad looking idea. Kind of totally eliminate the fuel rail altogethor.

However how would you fab up a fuel return system to the tank? With a turbo setup its nice to have a bypass so fuel can flow back to the tank when you dont need as much fuel pressure. Like when at idle.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:30 am

Shaun41178(2) wrote:

Hmm thats not a bad looking idea. Kind of totally eliminate the fuel rail altogethor.

However how would you fab up a fuel return system to the tank? With a turbo setup its nice to have a bypass so fuel can flow back to the tank when you dont need as much fuel pressure. Like when at idle.

Thanks. With that, I think I could just use a return-style regulator. On those the inlet and outlet lines are hooked up to the same chamber in the regulator, then the flow to the return line is regulated. I yanked this pic from Summit, it's of the return-style reg I was using with the carbed setup on my Iron Duke.

You can see how the return port on the bottom is regulated (you can also see the adjustment shaft passing through the center of the chamber). I would just use the same setup as that except at a higher pressure. In fact I think they make an EFI spring for that regulator, so I don't need to get another one.

I was also planning on yanking out the stock fuel lines, and replacing them with Russels anodized 1/2" aluminum line. Not necessary, but hey.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:42 am

Just as a bit of an update, I found these on SDS EFI:

At this point I'm considering just knocking off the existing bosses on the manifold and welding these on, as that would give me a little bit more space between the injectors and throttle body/tubing as well. They're $35 a pop, but the MSD equipment isn't cheap either. And I got 25ft of 1/2" Russel line, red, because it's pretty.

Anyone have any ideas for the dog bone/alternator mount? It's going to interfere with the injector boss. You can see where the dumbass - oops, previous owner - "clearanced" the manifold injector boss on the left to clear the mount:

Afterwards, I solved the problem with a couple of washers, but whatever.

Nate

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:43 am

Did you borrow Shaun's couch for that picture?

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:14 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Did you borrow Shaun's couch for that picture?

No...I mean, does it look that beat to shit?

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:01 pm

You must have borrowed yours from that '70's show, too...

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:36 pm

That injector idea is pretty fucking badass.

THink that will work?

Running flex lines isn't all that big of a deal really I don't think.

It might be a bit pricey but you already have most of hte parts already. Try mocking something up. itmight show how easy or tough it will be and you can change things around if you need to to accomadate things to make it fit.

I will get a better shot of my couch if you guys want

Standard · Post by **Standard** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:11 pm

why not something like this?

You could mount a distribution block inbetween the #2 and #3 runners, if there's enough room. Tough to tell from the pic.

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:56 pm

lust... :sex: :boobies:

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:32 am

Standard wrote:why not something like this?

You could mount a distribution block inbetween the #2 and #3 runners, if there's enough room. Tough to tell from the pic.

Damn. Makes me wish I would've got that ITB manifold I found way back before I knew I was going to be doing an SD. Anyway, I've e-mailed the folks at SDS EFI, and I'm definitely going to be picking up those bosses. I'll most likely be grinding the old bosses off, and having the ones I just posted welded in their place. Another contributor to that decision was that I was starting to get uncomfortable with the (very little) amount of material I would have left in the stock bosses if I simply bored those out. I think they were mostly meant for mechanical or nitrous injection back in the day. (Which reminds me, anybody find a good price on 4 fogger nozzles lately, seriously

).

Anyhow, the difference between braided SS line and hard line is pretty much negligible to me. Those bosses are tapped 1/8" NPT straight out the top. I'll try the soft lines first, and if for some reason that doesn't work satisfactorily, I'll do the hard lines.

Nate

P.S. My couch owns teh shaun's

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:57 pm

ALWAYS buy cheap ITB setups when you come across them... If nothing else, it's an excuse to build an engine to fit it at some point in the future.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:03 pm

Following up on old threads...Here's how it turned out:

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:10 am

didn't clear the dizzy though did it?

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:39 am

DIS! FTW

Real Fiero Tech

Flexible lines to large injectors?

Flexible lines to large injectors?

Re: Flexible lines to large injectors?