Autocrossed my Formula for the first time in 6 years

[Chase Race]

It was fun. My old Victoracers even stuck OK after some treatment with the magic potion.

I've autocrossed in the past six years, just not in my car. After driving a handful of other cars I'm reminded that the Fiero is not an easy car to drive fast. I think 80% of this problem could be solved with quicker steering.

I looked like this:

[Dough19]

The turning on the 88 front suspension does feel slower than the earlier suspension. I used to autocross an 88GT for a few years before building the 87GT that I race now.

BTW How did you do overall??

[Chase Race]

The turning on the 88 front suspension does feel slower than the earlier suspension.

Not sure what you mean by that. What I'm referring to is the number of turns lock to lock and the early and late cars are about the same. I don't want to ever take my hands off the wheel. The Fiero steering ratio is so slow that you have to.

BTW How did you do overall??

I did ok. About what I expected given my rustiness and hard tires. I wasn't running in class because they were running in the afternoon session. I had afternoon plans so I ran Time Only in the morning session. My time would have put me second in class, and it put me 36th of 99 overall entrants.

But that's still too slow. Comparing to people I used to race against I figure I was about 2 seconds off pace compared to where I used to be. Results here: http://www.wwscc.org/event_results/2006/wwscc06-8.html

[Nemesis]

It was fun. My old Victoracers even stuck OK after some treatment with the magic potion.

I've autocrossed in the past six years, just not in my car. After driving a handful of other cars I'm reminded that the Fiero is not an easy car to drive fast. I think 80% of this problem could be solved with quicker steering.

I looked like this:

Mineral Spirits?

I agree with the slow steering. I'd love to have power steering just to have fewer turns of the wheel.

[Series8217]

... and the 88 rear camber issue rears its ugly head again.

[Dough19]

The turning on the 88 front suspension does feel slower than the earlier suspension.

Not sure what you mean by that. What I'm referring to is the number of turns lock to lock and the early and late cars are about the same. I don't want to ever take my hands off the wheel. The Fiero steering ratio is so slow that you have to.

BTW How did you do overall??

I did ok. About what I expected given my rustiness and hard tires. I wasn't running in class because they were running in the afternoon session. I had afternoon plans so I ran Time Only in the morning session. My time would have put me second in class, and it put me 36th of 99 overall entrants.

But that's still too slow. Comparing to people I used to race against I figure I was about 2 seconds off pace compared to where I used to be. Results here: http://www.wwscc.org/event_results/2006/wwscc06-8.html

My 87GT just feels more responsive as you turn the wheel compared to the 88GT that I drove. It just seems to react faster. I guess it could have been due to a difference in caster between the two car though. I don't know.

I am surprized how well those Solstices did!!! I can't believe one got FTD.

[JohnW]

Your car still looks good though, since the last time I saw it back in '97.

John Williams
ES 51
88 Coupe/Formula

[The Dark Side of Will]

It was fun. My old Victoracers even stuck OK after some treatment with the magic potion.

I've autocrossed in the past six years, just not in my car. After driving a handful of other cars I'm reminded that the Fiero is not an easy car to drive fast. I think 80% of this problem could be solved with quicker steering.

I looked like this:

Where your static camber settings, front and rear?

[Chase Race]

Mineral Spirits?

Yep.

I'd love to have power steering just to have fewer turns of the wheel.

Ditto.

... and the 88 rear camber issue rears its ugly head again.

This isn't due to worn out rubber bushings, though. This is because of not enough camber gain to make up for body roll.

My 87GT just feels more responsive as you turn the wheel compared to the 88GT that I drove. It just seems to react faster. I guess it could have been due to a difference in caster between the two car though. I don't know.

I know what you mean. I think it's a caster issue. My '88 GT (Aaron's car) had less caster and it seemed to turn in quicker and react faster. Still had to turn the wheel too far, though.

I am surprized how well those Solstices did!!! I can't believe one got FTD.

They're fast cars and good drivers. I'm rooting for one of these guys to win Nationals.

Your car still looks good though, since the last time I saw it back in '97.

John Williams
ES 51
88 Coupe/Formula

Thanks John! Long time no talk. I hope you're still doing well.

Where your static camber settings, front and rear?

About 1.5 - 1.6 degrees negative on all four corners. Don't remember exactly.

[Series8217]

... and the 88 rear camber issue rears its ugly head again.

This isn't due to worn out rubber bushings, though. This is because of not enough camber gain to make up for body roll.

Aye, I was referring to the geometry issue.
After I got my drivetrain back in I found its not so easy to correct; the driver's side adjustable link inner mount will interfere with the transmission case and CV joint if it is raised much higher... so it seems like the easiest solution is going to be adding roll resistance.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Well...

The toe link inner pivots are further apart than the lateral link inner pivots. This provides a slight amount of beneficial bump steer at stock ride height, but lower the car (bad) or raising the inner pivots (good) screws up that geometry. The solution as I see it, is to give the toe link & lateral link inner pivots the same lateral separation. Once the pivots are raised, raising the lateral link pivot MORE than the toe link pivot will provide similar bump steer to stock, but better roll center characteristics.

One could also move the toe link IP's forward slightly so that the left one is between the CV joint and transmission case. Mount your powertrain firmly.

[Series8217]

Well...

The toe link inner pivots are further apart than the lateral link inner pivots. This provides a slight amount of beneficial bump steer at stock ride height, but lower the car (bad) or raising the inner pivots (good) screws up that geometry.

Why would raising both inner pivots equally screw up the geometry? Lower the car 1", raise the pivots 1". Doesn't improve on stock geometry but you get the lower COG.

The solution as I see it, is to give the toe link & lateral link inner pivots the same lateral separation. Once the pivots are raised, raising the lateral link pivot MORE than the toe link pivot will provide similar bump steer to stock, but better roll center characteristics.

Hmm.. if that's true then couldn't we just raise the lateral link inner pivots and move them slightly outward to get the same effect? That would be easy.

One could also move the toe link IP's forward slightly so that the left one is between the CV joint and transmission case. Mount your powertrain firmly.

I was thinking about that but was unsure of what difference it would make with regard to bump steer.
Now with the Getrag installed though I see that the transmission case becomes a problem as well. With the Isuzu its just the CV joint thats in the way.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Now that I have an '88, I'm going to be doing some of my own experimenting, but from what George Ryan has said on the Fiero Racing List, the change in geometry is more important than lowering the CG.

Raising both pivots equally and changing the angle of the links relative to horizontal puts the suspension at a different point in its bump steer curve.

I need to do my own analysis, but I'd think that we'd want to raise all four pivots... Raising only the lateral link pivots may not improve things as much as they could be improved.

If I moved the toe link inner pivot forward, I'd use a spacer and longer bolt on the hub carrier to move the outer pivot forward as well. Yes, it will be close to the case of the 282, but it can be moved higher than it can in the stock position.