Summer vacation starts with Getrag input shaft seal leak

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:55 pm

Way back in the day at WCF we had some issues with the McCleod pressure plates snagging up on the inside of the Getrag transmissions, I wonder if this might be the same problem.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:25 am

No, the SPEC pressure plate is a stock one with blue paint on it.
I ran a SPEC clutch before with no problem. If the pressure plate hit it would always make noise; the housing doesn't move..

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:44 pm

Well I finally took the time to get the drivetrain out and take a look at the clutch/pressure plate.

All of my flywheel bolts had backed out. The flywheel had 5 degrees of free play in every direction. I'm surprised it didn't grenade itself. I'm going to buy new flywheel bolts before I put it back together. I used my torque wrench to torque them to 80 ft-lbs, so I'm not certain what happened..
When I first built my motor I used new flywheel bolts and no loctite. I put ~15,000 miles on the motor.
When I put it back together at the beginning of this summer I reused those bolts, but can't remember if I used loctite or not. I'll definitely use new bolts this time!

On a side note, the flywheel side of the clutch disc looks more burnt up than it should for having only 600 miles on it. Maybe this clutch material (it's a kevlar+metallic compound) is harder on the flywheel than what I had before (Clutchtex), but it sure seems like an awful lot of hot spots for having only 600 miles. I use the clutch as little as possible and don't slip it much.

jelly2m81 · Post by **jelly2m81** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:57 am

EEEE!, lucky that thing didn't grenade.

Blue loctite should be fine for the FW bolts. Your torque wrench might be another matter, I send my snap on torque wrenchs away each year to be calibrated, and they always come back having needed adjustment.

Depending on what torque wrench you have, you may want to get it calibrated or simply replace it just to be on the safe side in the future.

The hot spots may be because of the FW flopping around, that would create uneven surface contact of the clutch disc and the FW.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:16 pm

flywheel bolts are torque to yeild and are single use only. I always use red loctite and remove with an air gun.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:53 pm

:cussing:
Upon closer inspection, my flywheel mounting holes are slightly elongated (I can wiggle the bolts more along the direction of rotation than away from the center).
Also the crankshaft mounting surface is galled between a few bolt holes. Same with the mating surface of the flywheel. Luckily, most of the material transfer was from the flywheel to the crankshaft, so there are high spots I can grind/file/sand down until the surface is back to where it should be.
If I reuse the flywheel, it will still be centered properly because the center hole is fine, and I can insert something in the dowel hole to keep it lined up in the direction of rotation. Is there any reason I shouldn't do this?

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:36 pm

Nevermind.. its too much to be workable by hand. I'm going to have to disassemble the motor and take the crankshaft in to have the mounting face turned.
I guess I'll get an aluminum flywheel since I'm replacing it..

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:26 am

Suck, man. That's a hell of a way to have to learn not to reuse flywheel bolts...

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:51 pm

I have always reused flywheel bolts. Maybe I am just lucky. :scratch:

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:12 pm

jelly2m8 wrote:Your torque wrench might be another matter, I send my snap on torque wrench[e]s away each year to be calibrated, and they always come back having needed adjustment.

Depending on what torque wrench you have, you may want to get it calibrated or simply replace it just to be on the safe side in the future.

Bending beam FTMFW.

Shaun41178(2) wrote:I have always reused flywheel bolts. Maybe I am just lucky. :scratch:

Maybe so? Do you loctite yours? What torque do you use?
It doesn't take much to stretch a bolt that short beyond reuseability.
Northstar flywheel bolts are torque to yield.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:17 pm

torque to yeild bolts can be reused if they were not torqued properly the first time. Once you surpass the ultimate tensile strength, the bolt is being cold work hardened as you torque it. Then the tensile strength drops off very rapidly as you overtorque it. If your not overtorquing a bolt that was not torqued enough the first time, your all set.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:19 pm

I might have overtightened them this time and yielded them. I recall going off memory on the torque spec (bad idea) and I don't remember if I did 60 (correct) or 80 (baaaad).
Also, when I put my motor together the first time I had reused the flywheel bolts. I bought them new and had them on for 2000 miles and then I took them off and reinstalled during the motor rebuild and they were on for 15,000 miles before I took it off a few months ago to have the flywheel resurfaced... So it seems they can be reused at least twice IF they are torqued properly.

-Steven

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:32 pm

Makes me slightly worried, I reused mine when I did my engine swap. Reused all the parts, torqued to spec. I guess if they haven't had any problems in the 30,000 miles or so they've been there, I shouldn't start worrying about it now. But I'll keep it in mind when it comes time to replace my clutch.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:10 pm

Parts are trickling in. My crank is at the shop to have the flywheel mounting surface turned flat. My machinist said I might have been able to do it with a file, but I dont think I would've gotten it flat enough; too much of the surface was messed up.
I ordered a Fidanza aluminum flywheel that will be here tomorrow. When we built my motor we made the mistake of not bothering to check the balance on the "neutrally balanced" iron flywheel, so I need to have that spun and checked against the aluminum one. My crankshaft was balanced with the iron one. They're supposed to be neutral but you never know.
Other than that, I'm just waiting on a gasket set and new main bolts which are coming in on Saturday.. and a new timing chain which won't be here until a few days before I have to leave for Los Angeles. D'oh.
If all goes well I'll have my car back on the road right before I move back to LA. This has happened four times in the last 2 or 3 years.. but I make it every time!

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:11 pm

Series8217 wrote:My crankshaft was balanced with the iron one. They're supposed to be neutral but you never know.

If it's an internally balanced engine, NEVER balance it with the flywheel...

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:21 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
Series8217 wrote:My crankshaft was balanced with the iron one. They're supposed to be neutral but you never know.
If it's an internally balanced engine, NEVER balance it with the flywheel...

I know.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:22 pm

Since you've had problems with this, I may as well let you know before you encounter it. The Fidanza aluminum flywheel leaves you very little room in the bolt bores for a socket. So the bolts go into the bores a little, but there isn't enough room to get the socket around them. I had a lot of trouble getting mine to 60 without the torque wrench slipping off.

btw, I had questions about this, but Fidanza says to use factory torque specs for both the flywheel and pressure plate.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:17 pm

ever heard of grade 8 washers? Or do you want your flywheel walking away on its own. I wouldnt mess around with "close enough" on torque to yeild bolts.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:56 pm

p8ntman442 wrote:ever heard of grade 8 washers? Or do you want your flywheel walking away on its own. I wouldnt mess around with "close enough" on torque to yeild bolts.

GM didn't put washers on them from the factory, so I didn't here. I got them to spec, it was just a pain in the ass, and I slipped a couple times. They also have locktite.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:30 am

The V6/60 flywheel bolts are not torque to yield. Steven just overtorqued the S@#$ out of his and yielded them that way.