High Feature V6 Swap

[The Dark Side of Will]

The Fiero axle shafts ("axle bars" as DSS calls them) are actually pretty strong. I don't think I've ever seen/heard of one breaking.

The outer CV is probably the first weak spot in the axles. I've multiple accounts of breaking those. The inner CV is the second. I say that because I replaced my Fiero small pattern outer CV's with 27 spline FWD A-body outer CV's (used with 5x115 hubs) and then broke an inner CV joint.

[ericjon262]

Why not just have a heavy duty axle bar made custom? You can get any spline you need, and it's just a straight shaft with splines and a snap ring groove, I would bet it wouldn't be that expensive.

[draven]

Why not just have a heavy duty axle bar made custom? You can get any spline you need, and it's just a straight shaft with splines and a snap ring groove, I would bet it wouldn't be that expensive.

Looking into doing just that.... calling gator axles, moser, dss, dutchman axles, rcperformance, etc...on monday.... does anyone know of any others?

[draven]

As far as hp goals and turbo selection... after additional calculations, to maintain as wide a power band as possible with the 3.6L I have to work with I've downgraded my hp goals to 500-550hp max. Looks like a GTX3582r should do nicely...

to maintain even more low end, does anyone have any experience or knowledge of using a Quick Spool Valve or QSV?

[ericjon262]

Why not just have a heavy duty axle bar made custom? You can get any spline you need, and it's just a straight shaft with splines and a snap ring groove, I would bet it wouldn't be that expensive.

Looking into doing just that.... calling gator axles, moser, dss, dutchman axles, rcperformance, etc...on monday.... does anyone know of any others?

maybe strange engineering?

[Shaun41178(2)]

As far as hp goals and turbo selection... after additional calculations, to maintain as wide a power band as possible with the 3.6L I have to work with I've downgraded my hp goals to 500-550hp max. Looks like a GTX3582r should do nicely...

to maintain even more low end, does anyone have any experience or knowledge of using a Quick Spool Valve or QSV?

Driveshaft shop?.

If going with a 35r, you wont need a quickspool valve. You can go with a .63 or .82 ar t3 exhaust hosuing. On a 3.6 it will lite off quick.

With my iron head 3.4 I had 7 lbs of boost around 2700 rpm in 4th gear with a similar sized turbo. I had a precision sc6152e with a t3 .63 hotside. That used the old cast 35r garret compressor wheel which was a 61mm

I say go with the vband in/out hotside in a .82 ar. If you want it to spool 200 rpm sooner go with the .63.

The vband is easier to package as the housing is physically smaller and it weighs less than a standard t3 or t4 housing.

[draven]

Axle information.... Gator Axles wants $1200 to cut a custom set of axle shafts.... rcpengineering never returned three of my messages after a week... Dutchman axles wants 580$ for a set of custom shafts...

Just got in a set of reman'd 2007/G6 Aurora driver axles and will be swapping out the outboard stubs today to keep things moving along for the engine mounts..

spoke to 1 shop, full-race, and 2 tuners, one local and one at Renick Performance this past week, all unconnected, regarding their opinions and experience with GTX vs EFR's... Short of a full out race car or dedicated quarter mile car they recommend the BW EFR's with IWG and twin scroll....transient boost threshold is the fastest they've dealt with given the new turbine wheels mixed with twin scroll, rock steady boost control with the IWG and the lower cost of an integrated IWG and bypass overall....

The size of the units are a little disturbing as the 7670 and 8374 are a foot long...

Finally heard back from the Saab guy at Chuck Beaverton Motorsports.... he'll be building the cross over and twin scroll t4 inlet out of mostly 321 and 304 on the vband flanges where necessary. Single headers and secondaries and crossover will be 1.75"

[The Dark Side of Will]

SRS BZNS.

Did you ever get the crank bolt pattern?

Also, what's the diameter & spline count where the axles go into the F40? I don't hold out much hope, but I have a set of Getrag 284 axles here and am curious to see if GM recycled that spline.

[FieroWanaBe1]

Looking into doing just that.... calling gator axles, moser, dss, dutchman axles, rcperformance, etc...on monday.... does anyone know of any others?

Mark Williams Ent.

I've used them professionally for driveshafts. Pretty competent.

[draven]

Looks like I figured out a way to utilize the beefy cobalt turbo axles afterall.... After dismantling and being covered in far more axle goo that necessary.....I can respline the outboard ends of the LNF shaft to mimic that of the G6 shafts, as they have the circlip in the same location more or less as the cobalt axles, and use the G6 inner race, cage, and balls with the fiero axle stub... got it all lined up and verified in the 2025K hubs, F40, saab halfshaft, while lined up in the cradle with my leveling system. This setup puts the F40 to Block mating point 4 inches left of the center point of the cradle more or less identical to the bolt in LSJ axles

Shipping the shafts out to a N. Georgia axle shop today to get resplined.

So the solution I'm rolling with at the moment from the transmission to upright is:

[Saab F40] <--> [LNF inboard cup] <--> [LNF inboard tulip race & rollers] <--> [LNF axle w/ outboard resplined] <--> [G6 Manual Inner race, Balls, Cage] <--> [Fiero Axle Stub] <--> [5mm spacer] <--> [Cavalier 2025K hubs] (talk about jenga....)





Haven't forgotten about your measurements Will...

Now to deal with California Clutch / Clutchnet..... put my order in almost 2.5 months ago for a Saab 9-3 2.8T sprung 6 puck clutch, PP, and 12lb solid alloy billet flywheel... was told two months ago it would be ready in 10 days... then 8 more days... then 5 more days... then 10 more days, etc.... Not the same ClutchNet they used to be a decade ago...

[draven]

Cobalt LNF Axles sent off to Hudlow axle in N. GA for resplining to fit a G6 inner race.

On a downer note.. the shop in MI that I paid to build a stand alone harness for the LF3 dropped the ball... They were stand up enough to admit that they simply didn't have the time (I wonder if it was the know how) and credited my bank account.

In lieu of that I obtained both the 2014 XTSV and 2016 ATSV factory service manuals and have been tracing the PCU pinouts to make sure they are lined up in the hopes that I can use an LF4 ATSV Manual PCM which 'should' short cut a good chunk of the hassle dealing with the XTS automatic PCM. Not to mention it already has a more optimum boost map with it slightly larger TD04's compared to those of the LF3. Unfortunately, HPTuners cannot be used to transfer the manual segment from the ATS to the XTS PCM even though they are the same PCM, the E92, they have different OS revisions. After tracing about 150 pinouts I've only found one difference, the fuel rail pressure sensor on the ATSV has an integrated Fuel Temp sensor in the fuel rail pressure sensor and thus an additional 5V reference wire. Looks promising..

Interesting note...I did talk a bit more to Renick Performance out of CA and oddly enough he stated that the LF4 titanium connecting rods, although lighter than the LF3s, were prone to shattering under very very high loads as compared to the LF3s.

[draven]

Ok... Vendor woes...

First, I know several members here and on Old Europe have utilized California Clutch / Clutchnet over the years, including myself for a stage 1 clutch on a Mazda 6 restore I completed last year. For my LF3/F40 build I ordered a saab 9-3 2.8T V6 billet solid flywheel, pressure plate, and 6 puck sprung clutch back at the beginning of January. I was initially told 10 business days for delivery and after 3 conversations where each time I was told 'next friday' or 'just waiting on the flywheel' during February, Oleg at Clutchnet has gone radio silent on me. Will not return calls/messages.. no status updates... nothing... I know he's there as one Friday after I left a message around mid afternoon I had a friend immediately call him up and leave a message about how he was interested in a new clutch/pp/fw and he immediately returned his call.

I noticed on the web that a few others have had similar experiences online recently and a few similar posts at the BBB.

Anyone else had this type of experience with ClutchNet recently?

On another Vendor issue..
I had been dealing with AlphaFabIndustries/Motorsports out of MI as they advertised a complete stand alone harness for the LF3 retuned E92 ECU, including all sensors for 1.5K$, spendy but that's a ton of time I could save on this build. Last fall I looked up their reviews, contacted them, asked them as many questions as I could about their business, turnaround time, etc.. and paid them in full last October for the harness and DBW throttle pedal. Then located and shipped them an XTS LF3 ECU to speed up their process. They do answer their phone, "IF" you know the extension and I called them every Friday to every other Friday since the end of January inquiring as to the status of the Harness.. Every time I got answer of, We'll get right back to you and call you back today, it'll be ready next Wednesday for shipment, etc..etc...

I contacted them to see if they'd be will to just back out of the deal, refund me my payment, and return my ECU. They jumped at the opportunity, apologized, took my card # for the refund and stated that the ECU would be shipped by that Friday. That was 10 business days ago......aaannnnnddddd you guessed it.......nothing... Called yesterday, asked to send in an email to get a response by the end of the day by the owner....nothing... emailed this morning... nothing.... They are alive and well as per their facebook page, doing quite well from what it seems...even moved to a larger shop.

I've got every email correspondence between us that backs up the story with AlphaFab.

Has anyone ever gone through the credit card charge back scenario with a vendor? Advice, pointers, etc?

[ericjon262]

I don't have any advice, but I can tell you I went through the same thing with Clutchnet AND Spec, months of waiting, just to cancel the orders and go with a Bully clutch. you can dispute the charges with the credit card company, but I've never done it before.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Has anyone ever gone through the credit card charge back scenario with a vendor? Advice, pointers, etc?

I don't have any advice, but I can tell you I went through the same thing with Clutchnet AND Spec, months of waiting, just to cancel the orders and go with a Bully clutch. you can dispute the charges with the credit card company, but I've never done it before.

Caveat 1: I'm with USAA, who goes to lengths to make sure stuff is easy.
Caveat 2: I so rarely buy "finished items" that I don't have a lot of experience with such vendors.

A few months back, I ordered a travel keyboard with [NSFW]clit mouse[/NSFW] direct from Lenovo. It arrived as expected but had 8 dead keys out of the box. Lenovo's customer support was a complete shit show and I couldn't find anyone who could actually do anything with it. I filed a dispute with USAA. They refunded the charge and told me they'd get back to me with what the vendor said, but otherwise my involvement was over. It was super easy.

TL;DR: Your time is valuable. Don't waste it with companies that don't want your business.

[draven]

I've started the dispute with Clutchnet already... AlphaFabMotorsports started responding to emails yesterday, still putting me off but it allows me to build a documented conversation thread showing their admittance yet resistance to refund to give to the bank.

The old adage, If you want something done right, (or hell even done at all) you have to do it yourself... applies more and more...

[FieroWanaBe1]

I have had my bank refund a payment for shipping a car that never got picked up.
All I had to do was provide a receipt and the contact info for the car that was still with the original owner.
It took about 2 weeks and I had all my money back.

[draven]

Still trying to find a clutch/pp/fw combo to handle the LF3/LF4 power in the F40....trying to find the stack/setup height of the stock Saab 9-3 2.8T / F40 clutch/pp/fw is proving somewhat difficult. If anyone knows what it is or even has a source of a busted up 2.8T / F40 clutch setup for measurement let me know. I want to find out if I can utilize the ATSV OEM DMF twin disc setup before I go high end custom, tilton/clutchmasters/monster, or go with an uprated SACH's DMF setup and have to baby it...

FYI, if anyone is planning to utilize a fuel pump control module from/for a GenV ECU, an E92 for example, to run a PWM fuel pump, GET the connector pigtail from the donor.... the connector pigtail cannot be ordered from acdelco or gm... you have to order the body harness, $800+ or the service connector with individual pins separate..

16 pin Connector Part#: 13589631 $33 - $55
Terminal Part#: 13505803 $7-$9 each need 9 I believe

[The Dark Side of Will]

I don't know where you've been looking or what the terminals are actually like, but that sounds like an outrageous price for terminals.

[draven]

I'm sure it would be far cheaper if I could locate the manufacturer i.e Molex, etc... just haven't been able to yet...

[ericjon262]

got a picture of the connector?

my F23 clutch came from Bully clutch in canada, might be an option for you.