3800 Headers....

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:22 am

Boscolingus wrote: Will - sorry for the thread going off on a tangent

Not a problem. The people who post determine where a thread goes. I just put it in the appropriate place.

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:52 pm

Aaron wrote:
Boscolingus wrote:Each and every header system is built on an assembled engine at WCF ( there are currently 4 different engine/drivetrain combos set up specifically for the headers ). If you were to scroll through the pics of the "WCF BBQ's" on www.fieroswest.org I'm sure you will come across the pics of them, I'd link them but it's late and theyre getting ready to close up shop here at the dealership.
My headers fit the crossover perfect, but then once ready to go on, I had a 1/8" gap in one of the connections. Turns out when I mocked it up, it was without gaskets, and the gaskets took up enough room to make the headers too far apart from each other by about 1/8".

When WCF mocks them up, do they do it with a gasket?

Now that is a very good question. I'm gonna talk to Chris about this as soon as he's back from Cal City riding dirt bikes and what not. As far as producing tuned headers, it would be difficult to provide one set that meets the requirements of every swapper and thier planned mods, either in progress or down the road. If a set of numbers could be agreed upon here then I can see about putting them into production. Also, I was considering the idea of a flex joint, like the one found on the SLP headers - any thoughts on this?

Also any changes to the product would have to be taken into condideration of space in the engine bay. As the headers stand right now they are already near the point of restriction within the engine bay.

Now I know that Marmon style clamps are used on the 90 degree V6 applications, I believe the reason for them not being used on the 3800 is that a completely different stockpile of clamps and flanges would have to be had on hand as the units for the 60 degree are a smaller diameter.

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:16 pm

V8Archie wrote:lol @ wcf headers.

lol @ V8Archie's FICA score

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:19 pm

whipped wrote:CNC mandrel bends are your friend. Just have to weld at the flange and collector. Done.

these are mandrel bends, however the bottom line for the exhaust systems cannot overcome the overhead for a CNC mandrel bender, even used units go for $20,000 on up. As much as I would love to find a unit for dad, these are going to be hand crafted from u-bends for the time being.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:17 pm

Boscolingus wrote:As far as producing tuned headers, it would be difficult to provide one set that meets the requirements of every swapper and thier planned mods, either in progress or down the road. If a set of numbers could be agreed upon here then I can see about putting them into production. Also, I was considering the idea of a flex joint, like the one found on the SLP headers - any thoughts on this?

It is very difficult, dare I say not plausible, to mass produce tuned headers, because every engine wants something different. It would be a bit easier on the 3800, since everyone takes the same route (Cam, intercooler, more boost). But even then, the advantage of tuned primaries will only come forward on a few engines. However the advantage of equal length will prove true on all 3800s.

As for the flex joint, I'd highly suggest it. Headers will crack when stupid people touch them. And then someone is going to heat wrap the entire header, and it may eventually crack. Although much more prevalent on a turbo car, where the weight is held by the header and EGT's are tremendously higher, N/A cars still crack headers, especially when they support the exhaust weight and shifting.

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:35 pm

material additions such as the flex joint and ditching the 3-bolt flanges in favor of marmen style would be a fairly straight forward change to implement, however approaching the idea of equal length may be a little more time consuming, and quite honestly a highly argued topic down at the shop.

It's very hard to get someone to change something, especially in the case of the fabricator who has built these headers for years in a specific way. It's going to involve mounting everything into the mock-up engine bay at the shop and essentially starting over. But then again, evolution does'nt happen over night

As soon as Chris gets back I will be going over these concerns, highlights, and topics regarding these headers with him - thank you all for your input

And who ever is using the V8Archie username, if you have a problem give me a call and square it away - 661-222-2525 ext 6212. I am available in the evenings before 9pm, however availability is dependant upon customer traffic. This would be the part that you put your mouth where your keyboard is.

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:02 pm

Still no phone call from username "V8Archie".....

Be forwarned, prepare your argument when you call as my time is highly valuable. My day is at best "punctuated" by moments I get to spend here among fellow Fiero enthusiasts, and when I am here I am far from amused when I come across tasteless coments such as yours.

But once again, man up and call. If by chance a financial situation is a limiting factor in your ability to call, simply PM me your number and I will discretely call you so that we can reach an agreement to the extent of your web presence and/or input onto any topics that myself or WCF are referenced to...

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:52 pm

v8 V8Archie I think is V8Archie. He has an 800 number. He is a troll on this board. Well every board for that matter.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:53 pm

V8Archie

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 106

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject:

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You just want to see V8Archie lying down spread out. Tumor stomach jutting out like a large foothill. Ahh yes, old scrubby huge gutted naked men FTW!

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Boscolingus

Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 307
Location: Valencia, CA
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject:

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HAHA, you dirty dirty!

I dont think its V8Archie at all, its someone who owns an 88 fiero.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:53 pm

V8Archie

Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 106

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You just want to see V8Archie lying down spread out. Tumor stomach jutting out like a large foothill. Ahh yes, old scrubby huge gutted naked men FTW!

Back to top

Boscolingus

Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 307
Location: Valencia, CA
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAHA, you dirty dirty!

I dont think its V8Archie at all, its someone who owns an 88 fiero.

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:20 pm

The difference in this case is that I have ceased posting my views and opinions within his remedial and archaic threads. They do not concern me and as such I have zero vested interest. As you can see I would have nothing to gain by calling him. However, he appearently feels the need to garner attention within subject matter in which he is not affiliated with in any way ( i.e. 3800 paraphanellia ).

However, this could serve as a template for Arch as how to approach gaining feedback on correcting ( read: UPDATING ) a product that is widely used, however could use some improving.

Another diffrerence among Arch and myself is that I use the internet on a daily basis as an Internet Sales Manager to garner a salary - Arch does not, and as such should step away from the keyboard and spend a little more time turning the wrenches. Perhaps this is a reason some of his products have never been updated or improved upon, too much time wasted within the day, just an idle thought - much like your posting ( perhaps we do have something in common ).

Remeber, If you Fail to Plan... You Plan to Fail

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:05 pm

OK, came across a calculator that may provide some insight, perhaps those who know the numbers could fill in the blanks.....

http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php

Engine speed:
Displacement:
Exhaust Valve Opening (in degrees):
Ideal Primary Length and Diameter: Input you CID, RPM and EVO please

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:16 pm

That's not the real V8Archie..

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:23 pm

I think making a set of "headers" like the fwd setups would be the best bet, being able to clear the auto and manual trannies, and also clearing the trunk. I have had some people say the fwd headers fit in a fiero with no trunk cutting, and I heard otehrs say it needs to be notched. probably depends on what mounts are used to mount the engine.

Scrap the whole stock routing of the exhaust with the 3800, and design a new setup based on the fwd headers to clear the trunk, then have a catback system made for the headers too.

Just a thought

For reference. FWD 3800 S/C headers.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:26 pm

Although better than stock, those still aren't that great. Plus they'll make building a catback, especially one that isn't god-awfully loud and sounding like shit, very difficult.

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:31 pm

PurpleReign made a set similar to the FWD, one of the better sets I've seen so far..

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Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:33 pm

I really do get sick and tired of seeing header sets like that, and hearing them described as "One of the better ones." It honestly disappoints me that Fiero owners are so ignorant and behind the times that a set like that is even considered decent.

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:35 am

No where did I say they were "Great Headers". Sorry they're not perfectly tuned, equal length, Aaron stamped, etc. I DO think they are an improvement compared to what most people are using.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:28 pm

I don't. Look at that "collector." What'd he do wrap a pipe around all 3 primaries and weld each to it? I love the Y- pipe, how he doubles exhaust volume and keeps the same size pipe. And 3-bolt flanges suck, especially thin ones like those.

That screams out budget ignorance.