LS4 V8 DoD 4T65-E TAPShift swap underway (pics inside)
Moderators: The Dark Side of Will, Series8217
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Finished up the cooling system hookup yesterday. Had to use two molded heater hoses, AutoZone p/n's L-4103 and L-4447. These hoses came longer than needed but had the bends molded into them that I needed; so I just cut them to fit. The main coolant feed and return were a little more complicated.
Basically what you will need to do is use the stock Fiero 2.8 coolant crossover pipe that connects the engine to the left side coolant tube. What you will need to do is cut off the 90 deg bend about 2 inches from where the mounting bracket is welded to it so you have just the 90 deg bend and nothing else. Make sure the end you cut is cleaned of sharp edges because a hose will need to be connected to it. Then you will need a GATES brand radiator hose p/n 21758 and cut off the 90 deg section that has the flared end; this flared end will connect to the t-stat housing (inlet) and the other end will connect to the 90 deg portion of the crossover pipe you just cut off. Then all you will need is another 90 deg section of radiator hose to connect the 90 deg section of pipe to the right side coolant tube coming from the radiator as shown in the pictures below...
That takes care of the right side coolant tube hookup to the LS4's coolant inlet (t-stat housing). Now what's left is connecting the coolant outlet to the left side coolant tube in the Fiero. What you will need to do is use the remaining section of Fiero crossover coolant pipe you cut the 90deg bend off of and cut about another 3" or so of tubing off the end you cut on previously. The goal is to remove the section with the welded on bracket so you have a clean surface to clamp a hose onto. I found the perfect radiator hose for this application, it's for a 97 Chevy Pickup C1500 4.3L V6; AutoZone p/n: XL-183. Once you get this hose you are going to cut off about 3" from each end. Then you are going to cut it into two pieces a couple of inches from the 45deg bend at the one end of the hose. If you are doing this swap for yourself you might want to mock the pieces up on the engine in the car before you cut the hose to make sure your fitment is right. Once done, you should have something that looks like this:
I feel it is necessary to support the metal section of the coolant crossover tube to the cradle or other surface to help keep it from swinging around while the car is driven. I used the remaining bracket on the coolant tube and fashioned a strip of stainless steel that allowed me to bolt the coolant tube to the trans mount bracket; which you can kind of see in one of the above pics. The left over piece you cut off of the XL-183 hose can be used to connect the coolant crossover tube to the left side coolant tube going up to the radiator.
Finished the air induction system and air filter mounting...
Used K&N filter p/n: RU3130 and part of some GM air induction tube p/n: 25176891 as well as the original MAF sensor from the LS4 and the air induction piece that connected it to the throttle body.
Basically what you will need to do is use the stock Fiero 2.8 coolant crossover pipe that connects the engine to the left side coolant tube. What you will need to do is cut off the 90 deg bend about 2 inches from where the mounting bracket is welded to it so you have just the 90 deg bend and nothing else. Make sure the end you cut is cleaned of sharp edges because a hose will need to be connected to it. Then you will need a GATES brand radiator hose p/n 21758 and cut off the 90 deg section that has the flared end; this flared end will connect to the t-stat housing (inlet) and the other end will connect to the 90 deg portion of the crossover pipe you just cut off. Then all you will need is another 90 deg section of radiator hose to connect the 90 deg section of pipe to the right side coolant tube coming from the radiator as shown in the pictures below...
That takes care of the right side coolant tube hookup to the LS4's coolant inlet (t-stat housing). Now what's left is connecting the coolant outlet to the left side coolant tube in the Fiero. What you will need to do is use the remaining section of Fiero crossover coolant pipe you cut the 90deg bend off of and cut about another 3" or so of tubing off the end you cut on previously. The goal is to remove the section with the welded on bracket so you have a clean surface to clamp a hose onto. I found the perfect radiator hose for this application, it's for a 97 Chevy Pickup C1500 4.3L V6; AutoZone p/n: XL-183. Once you get this hose you are going to cut off about 3" from each end. Then you are going to cut it into two pieces a couple of inches from the 45deg bend at the one end of the hose. If you are doing this swap for yourself you might want to mock the pieces up on the engine in the car before you cut the hose to make sure your fitment is right. Once done, you should have something that looks like this:
I feel it is necessary to support the metal section of the coolant crossover tube to the cradle or other surface to help keep it from swinging around while the car is driven. I used the remaining bracket on the coolant tube and fashioned a strip of stainless steel that allowed me to bolt the coolant tube to the trans mount bracket; which you can kind of see in one of the above pics. The left over piece you cut off of the XL-183 hose can be used to connect the coolant crossover tube to the left side coolant tube going up to the radiator.
Finished the air induction system and air filter mounting...
Used K&N filter p/n: RU3130 and part of some GM air induction tube p/n: 25176891 as well as the original MAF sensor from the LS4 and the air induction piece that connected it to the throttle body.
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IT STARTED, IT STARTED...THE ENGINE STARTED!!!! It's only a matter of time now before Ryan puts it on the road!! Great oil pressure and no noises/ticks/knocks, etc. Ryan hasn't gotten the BCM wired up yet but the engine does start and run, but shuts off after 5 sec because of the missing security system. He's supposed to be getting to the dealership sometime this week to get the correct factory programming put onto the ECM so he can then make changes using the HP Tuners software.
Just thought I'd celebrate the good news that the engine runs and from Ryan's reports...sounds awesome!
:cheers:
Just thought I'd celebrate the good news that the engine runs and from Ryan's reports...sounds awesome!
:cheers:
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As Maurice said earlier, I started the engine up the other day -- without reprogramming the ECM. While the engine ran but shut off after 2 sec because of the missing security system/BCM, this confirmed one important thing I was wondering about... The starter crank signal comes from the key and goes only to the BCM. The BCM sends the crank signal out to the ECM via the Class 2 Serial Data link. The ECM activates a starter relay directly to enable engine cranking. There is no direct connection between the ignition switch and the starter on the Grand Prix GXP. I didn't know whether or not the engine would run if it was cranked without BCM intervention. Well now we know.
Another thing I wasn't sure about was the charging system. The alternator is controlled directly by the ECM. But there is a battery current sensor (inductive pickup sensor that goes around the negative battery cable) that connects directly to the BCM. When I started the engine, before it shut off due to the theft system the charging system wasn't working. So the question came up: Will the charging system work without the BCM being present?
Today I was able to go to the dealership to get the correct factory programming flashed onto this replacement ECM. Once I got back to the shop, I used the HP Tuners software to disable the VATS functions within the ECM. Then it was time to confirm another unknown (that was debated hotly in the Old Europe version of this thread)....
IT RUNS!!! No theft shutoff or other issues! The HP Tuners software WORKS AS ADVERTISED for this application (in being able to disable the VATS). The BCM isn't even installed in the car yet. Also, the charging system came to life after the engine ran for about 4 seconds and maintained a 14.4 volt charge while the engine ran. The car is not drivable yet due to a missing wheel and tire (supplier/vendor) which I hope shows up early next week. I am going to see if I can get an audio recording posted to the internet of the exhaust note later.
Now, moving on there is still a lot left to do on the interior. The tach doesn't work but there are some different settings for the tach output in this ECM that I am going to try before I try some things electronically at the tach. I also want to get the paddleshifters installed and hooked up to the TCM so I can see if those work as intended. Then there's still much more BCM wiring. But at least it runs.
In the meantime, I got some items from Ed Morad...
Pictured above is a PK3 module taken off an ignition cylinder, a PK3 master key, and a remote entry/start fob which is supposed to be compatible with the BCM I am installing in this application. As you can see, the PK3 module is quite small in size which means it could be mounted virtually anywhere in a Fiero. As I said earlier I am going to research the option of installing this module in a swap should someone wish to have this security feature.
Here is a picture of the finished exhaust system before I installed it into the car...
I will try to get some more pictures posted soon.
-ryan
Another thing I wasn't sure about was the charging system. The alternator is controlled directly by the ECM. But there is a battery current sensor (inductive pickup sensor that goes around the negative battery cable) that connects directly to the BCM. When I started the engine, before it shut off due to the theft system the charging system wasn't working. So the question came up: Will the charging system work without the BCM being present?
Today I was able to go to the dealership to get the correct factory programming flashed onto this replacement ECM. Once I got back to the shop, I used the HP Tuners software to disable the VATS functions within the ECM. Then it was time to confirm another unknown (that was debated hotly in the Old Europe version of this thread)....
IT RUNS!!! No theft shutoff or other issues! The HP Tuners software WORKS AS ADVERTISED for this application (in being able to disable the VATS). The BCM isn't even installed in the car yet. Also, the charging system came to life after the engine ran for about 4 seconds and maintained a 14.4 volt charge while the engine ran. The car is not drivable yet due to a missing wheel and tire (supplier/vendor) which I hope shows up early next week. I am going to see if I can get an audio recording posted to the internet of the exhaust note later.
Now, moving on there is still a lot left to do on the interior. The tach doesn't work but there are some different settings for the tach output in this ECM that I am going to try before I try some things electronically at the tach. I also want to get the paddleshifters installed and hooked up to the TCM so I can see if those work as intended. Then there's still much more BCM wiring. But at least it runs.
In the meantime, I got some items from Ed Morad...
Pictured above is a PK3 module taken off an ignition cylinder, a PK3 master key, and a remote entry/start fob which is supposed to be compatible with the BCM I am installing in this application. As you can see, the PK3 module is quite small in size which means it could be mounted virtually anywhere in a Fiero. As I said earlier I am going to research the option of installing this module in a swap should someone wish to have this security feature.
Here is a picture of the finished exhaust system before I installed it into the car...
I will try to get some more pictures posted soon.
-ryan
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As promised, here is the sound file of the engine starting and running with a few short revs thrown in...
http://home.att.net/~darthfiero/LS4_running1.wav
http://home.att.net/~darthfiero/LS4_running1.wav
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Heh; don't worry, Maurice. I think you will enjoy this LS4 as much as I enjoy my Turbo 3800. Maybe more so. I just wanted to reassure Joe that he will probably like the turbo so much (after it gets installed on his 3800) he won't even be thinking about a V8; unless he is racing one. :afrocool:blkcofy wrote:LOL, don't worry, once you have a turbo you will forget all about this. Trust me.
:scratch: ahem?
But to put your mind at ease, I have decided that my 88 coupe sitting out back will probably get a LS4 4T65-E TAPShift swap when I get the time to do it. I really like how this swap I am doing for you has come together and I anticipate the driving experience will not be a disappointment.
-ryan
Build update:
Ryan's got the car on all four tires and has taken it's maiden test drive! The weather's been pretty crappy, so he's not been able to open him up yet...but he reports that the power is evident, especially mid-range and top end. And he's happy to report the paddle shifter is working perfectly and is a match made in heaven to the performance upgrade we had done to the 4T65-E transmission. Most of the DIC functionality is working, especially the gear indicators that is linked to the paddle shift when in TAPShift mode. I think he's got some playing to do with the remote start and deleting some of the error codes like ABS and Steer Assist, but most of the DIC is reading correctly. Oh, there's an issue with getting the speedometer to read correctly, but he's got a solution for this as well. I'm telling you guys, Ryan is fricken amazing. I've never been more excited!!
He's scheduled to get everything professionally aligned this week and once the weather breaks, he'll be able to put the car through his pacing to determine how to fine tune everything. I'm sure he'll provide more visuals and better explain than I can on what's been done thus far!
In the meantime, I wanted to share a photo of the finished engine bay (with dual deck lid strut kit from Rodney Dickman) and a sticker I found on ebay that I'm going to try to alter (change to Fiero GXP and increase the horsepower!!) and have it planted somewhere either under the hood, behind the visor, or dare I in the window!! I'm still gased about what my 0-60 time will be with more HP and less weight than a Monte Carlo SS! Any educated guesses??
Blkcofy
Ryan's got the car on all four tires and has taken it's maiden test drive! The weather's been pretty crappy, so he's not been able to open him up yet...but he reports that the power is evident, especially mid-range and top end. And he's happy to report the paddle shifter is working perfectly and is a match made in heaven to the performance upgrade we had done to the 4T65-E transmission. Most of the DIC functionality is working, especially the gear indicators that is linked to the paddle shift when in TAPShift mode. I think he's got some playing to do with the remote start and deleting some of the error codes like ABS and Steer Assist, but most of the DIC is reading correctly. Oh, there's an issue with getting the speedometer to read correctly, but he's got a solution for this as well. I'm telling you guys, Ryan is fricken amazing. I've never been more excited!!
He's scheduled to get everything professionally aligned this week and once the weather breaks, he'll be able to put the car through his pacing to determine how to fine tune everything. I'm sure he'll provide more visuals and better explain than I can on what's been done thus far!
In the meantime, I wanted to share a photo of the finished engine bay (with dual deck lid strut kit from Rodney Dickman) and a sticker I found on ebay that I'm going to try to alter (change to Fiero GXP and increase the horsepower!!) and have it planted somewhere either under the hood, behind the visor, or dare I in the window!! I'm still gased about what my 0-60 time will be with more HP and less weight than a Monte Carlo SS! Any educated guesses??
Blkcofy
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