The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Real tech discussion on design, fabrication, testing, development of custom or adapted parts for Pontiac Fieros. Not questions about the power a CAI will give.

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The Dark Side of Will
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Here are a couple of quick shots showing just how crowded things are in this area of The Mule's engine bay. Not that they're less crowded in many other places... just that they're really crowded here.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Here are the mods to the oil filter adapter:

Drilled connections out to 23/32, tapped M20x1.5 a little deeper and skimmed about 0.010 off the sealing surfaces for the Dowty seals:

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ericjon262
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by ericjon262 »

looking good! fitment can't be that bad, you have A/C still!
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Yeah, keeping A/C was a requirement. "The automotive problem is fundamentally one of packaging"
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

The Dark Side of Will wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:48 pm So... I found this photo:

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Here: http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/000094-8.html

Apparently it's a Cobalt knuckle. I didn't know they used pinch bolt ball joints. I ordered a couple from RockAuto. Cobalts must have been available with steel arms with FE1 suspension or aluminum arms with FE3/FE5(?) suspension, because Rock lists two different ball joints with that distinguishing feature. They look the same in photos, though. They were cheap and I'm wondering if they *just happen* to have the same shank diameter as either the stock '84-'87 rear ball joints or the Dustbuster minvan ball joints which also bolt up to the Fiero control arms.

ALSO, the tie rod boss on the Cobalt knuckle is REALLY low, which means it's more likely to work out easily with a toe link that comes off the rear pivot of the control arm. It would be mounted in single shear (eewwwww) unless I do some extra welding to the cradle.
The Cobalt ball joints arrived. They have 20 mm shanks, while the Dustbuster minivan ball joints have 18mm shanks. Yes, the Cobalt ball joints are bigger than the mini-van ball joints(!). That means that using the Cobalt knuckles might be feasible with a split sleeve on the Dustbuster ball joint, which bolts into the Fiero control arm. However, a bit klugey.
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Snagged the GM plug, seal and bypass valve for the oil cooler filter adapter.

One of the supplementals in the parts diagrams describes the valve as "21 psi". Given its small size and high cracking pressure, it's truly a safety feature and not an operational flow diverter for the cooler. GM ran -10 lines for the cooler. These two facts give me more confidence I have PLENTY of flow capacity in my cooler.

However, the MoCal aluminum M20x1.5 to -12 AN fittings have a 0.485 ID, while the FOR steel M20x1.5 to -10 AN fittings have a 0.530 ID. I guess I need to see if I can get a pair of the FOR steel M20x1.5 to -12 AN fittings for that extra 20% area at the smallest cross section in the system.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Have found out that the Shelby .bin can run the A/C via a pressure transducer, so that's the direction I'll go with it.

That requires welding a pressure transducer port somewhere on the high pressure side of the system, and wiring said pressure transducer to the ECM. A location in the engine compartment makes the most sense for that. I have some space right at the new bracket I just installed, so that should work out fine. I think things are a bit too tight to install the transducer anywhere on the compressor fitting and I'm kind of averse to mounting it in the middle of the high pressure hose (especially since I just made that assembly).

A low pressure cutout switch on the suction side of the compressor is a good idea also. However, installing one in place of the pressure cycling switch on the dryer is the easy way out. I may have to play with the passenger compartment wiring a little bit to make that work, but that's not a big deal. I've already run the clutch switch and will end up running cruise control wiring back to the ECM.

The ECM will also need an "A/C Request" signal that's high whenever the HVAC control is in a position that calls for A/C. That's easy.

Once the physical changes are done, I can have a tuner change the A/C control from "analog cycling" to "analog" and it should all work. It'll need a touch-up tune anyway once I replace the oil rings, as there will be less oil in the chambers and I've installed the correct knock sensor since I first had it tuned. I'm also right at the limits of my 19# injectors, so I'll need to upgrade those as well.
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Just had an epiphany... The production injectors for the LC3 supercharged Northstar from the XLR-V and STS-V are ~40# units and are available for <$40 *NEW*... I'll just need to use injector connector adapters for them. AWESOME!

Summit wants $17 each for Trick Flow single unit EV1/EV6 adapters. Ballenger has theirs with short wires for $9/each. That's a nice difference when I need to get 8.
https://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/produ ... cts_id/769
ericjon262
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by ericjon262 »

FYI, the BRZ/FRS, uses an 8 bolt flywheel, my buddy has one and said he would get me bolt circle measurements, but I think the diameter might be too small.
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Lots of makes do. BMW 6 cylinder engines do, for that matter. It would be quite the coincidence if the patterns were the same. Also highly probable that the effort involved in adapting something exceeds the effort involved in making my own design in the first place.
ericjon262
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by ericjon262 »

I understand, it was just something I happened to notice. do you know the N* bolt circle off the top of your head?
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Not off the top of my head, but I have it written down.

Northstar: 8x78mm, 8mm bolts, 1.08" pilot bore in flexplate.


For S+G's:
LS: 6x79.4mm, 11(WTF GM?)mm bolts, 2.071 pilot journal.

BMW, of course uses EIGHT 12mm bolts on 200 HP engines...

*************

Edit to add: The weird part of the flywheel for dual disk clutches will be how thin it is compared to most everything else. It's going to end up at 0.600 thick to fit a Tilton into a 282.
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

My PS delete accessory belt routing isn't the greatest. I could watch the alternator output drop due to belt slip as the engine RPM cleared 5500 or so.
I've put some thought into how to reorganize it, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to do it with a TWO pulley spring tensioner.

With the right packaging, I may even be able to keep the belt totally below the battery so I don't have to worry about any interference between the belt or pulleys and the tray.

Here are a couple of candidates:

Dorman 419-010: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb- ... /overview/

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Dorman 419-214: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb- ... /overview/

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Those two are the front runners due to apparent packaging requirements, but here are a couple of backups:

Dorman 419-008: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb- ... /overview/

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Dorman 419-001: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb- ... /overview/

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I hate to put Made in China stuff on my red blooded American hot rod, so here's a BMW candidate too:

https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/11282248214

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Had a revelation about my oil rings...

I ordered a set of drop-in replacement rings with gapless top rings from Total Seal.
I used them with stock pistons and a garbage hone job. The engine blew oil smoke.
I tore the engine down and found a shop that could do a good job with the hone. The bore ended up 0.008" over.

I ordered custom CP pistons with domes to get compression up to 11.5. I ordered the diamond finish top rings and had the top grooves in the pistons cut for those rings. I put the engine together with the 2nd and oil rings from the first set. That's 3.0mm oil rings.

Somehow, my CP pistons were cut with 4.0mm grooves. I found the spec sheet in my old documentation and it cites 4.0mm oil grooves.
So as I was in a hurry to get the thing together before I went to Iraq, I must have installed my 3.0mm oil rings into 4.0mm grooves without noticing the slop. Feh.

Just another reminder to ALWAYS CHECK!
ericjon262
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by ericjon262 »

I know that pain!

on the tensioner note, some Honda's have 2 pulleys, in a fairly compact arrangement, one over the spring assembly, one on the arm, they are very compact from a front plane view, but area bit deeper.
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
ericjon262
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by ericjon262 »

Here is the tensioner I was referring to.

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https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/AC ... sEQAvD_BwE
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

ericjon262 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:46 pm Here is the tensioner I was referring to.

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https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/AC ... sEQAvD_BwE
Thanks! I'm sure there are quite a few two pulley tensioners across the market... I'll need to sit down with a CarQuest pulleys & tensioners catalog (it exists!) for a bit when I have the engine out and am updating the accessory drive.
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

A word about rod ends and seals:

If you have a rod end with this body style:

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and you install Pro-Werks/ChassisShop seals on it, they look like this:

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However, if you have a rod end with this body style:

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and you install seals on it, they look like this:

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When the seals are squashed flat like this, they're much more likely to split and tear at the edges, as well as become debonded from the steel washer.
Incompatibility between rod end body styles the seals are used on and the style they were designed for is probably a strong contributing factor for the short life many of us using them have seen.
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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

This has been a couple of weeks now, since I've been away from the car for the last two weekends.
I'm spot facing the back side of Dustbuster minivan (U-body) knuckles and drilling out the threads that mount the wheel bearings.

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These will let me run EITHER W-body 5x115/33 spline wheel bearings with my current bolt circle adapters, *OR* C7 Corvette 5x4.75/33 spline bearings with new adapters *OR* update my suspension to use the C7 bearings without adapters at all by pushing the knuckles out an inch or so.

ALSO:

Dug the already weight relieved Northstar crank out of storage to prep for install. I'll need to do some de-rusting on it, but my dad found a fantastic product for that. I'll add it to the hard to find parts thread soon.

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Re: The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I have two questions to answer before I can swap in the Corvette bearings:

1. How thick should the wheel spacers be with stock control arms and zero camber?
2. How far back can I push the strut with the clamp extension plates with zero camber?

I'm choosing zero camber as a reference point only. I'm expecting that I'll have do something with the control arms or inner pivots to achieve good camber. The limiting factor for fitting a wide wheel & tire is the transverse distance from the fender lip to the body metal. Both the wheel and the strut have to fit within this distance. This means that GM's method of camber adjustment involving holding the lower ball joint in place while adjusting the angle between the knuckle and strut won't work, because it changes where in that transverse space the span from the inboard face of the strut clamp to the outer lip of the wheel falls. This means that the relationship to the inner fender lip and body metal isn't constant across that adjustment range, which means that the whole space can't be filled up.

Thus once the optimum relationship between the span of the strut + wheel vs the space between the fender lip + body metal is established, the lower ball joint has to move to adjust camber while preserving the spatial relationships at the top edge of the tire.

One way of doing that is to install eccentric adjusters, such as used to make E30 rear suspensions adjustable, into the control arm pivots on the Fiero cradle. There are some concerns with this method:
-It may or may not provide sufficient adjustment range.
-If I'm welding to the cradle, I want to fix the rear pro-squat geometry and roll center height
-Because of the specialized bolts involved, I can't just use a longer bolt in the rear pivot and mount a rod-end toe link in single shear on it.

I'm still thinking about the most straightforward way of dealing with this.
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