CO2 chillers

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:18 pm

anyone seen one of these used? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... gory=38634

i've seen the normal co2 sprayers for the front of intercoolers but I thought this was an interesting idea - an aircharge pre-chiller that could be used on a 3800sc

beige · Post by **beige** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:10 pm

It sounds like a bad application of a good idea.
I don't think there would be enough surface area on that part to make a difference.
They should have used an actual intercooler core, which would still have problems, but it would work better than that setup.

txf · Post by **txf** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:32 pm

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Brow ... 21/c-10101

This is what the CRY02 system uses. Not much surface area to cool the air.

I have researched more than one type and one stands out hands down as the best. But it's a little costly.

it's called the Interfreezer.
http://www.cryofuzion.com/index.htm

Seems like cryofuzion has some beefs with DEI makers of CRYO2 systems but if you studied them both you would too.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:52 pm

Something like a PWR barrel intercooler could be used as well.

txf · Post by **txf** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:59 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Something like a PWR barrel intercooler could be used as well.

sURE COULD! would just take a little dyno testing to get optimum cooling out of it without using too much CO2

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:03 pm

The DEI might not have much surface area but does it actually work? Are there independent tests out there showing a good drop in intake temps?

I suspect there would be. That bulb I bet gets ice cold ANy air passing over it will quickly absorb the cold(shed heat)

It doesnt' take much surface area to really cool down air. An ac unit doesn't really have a thick core to drop temps but yet it still gets the air cold. Sure it doesnt' get it to sub zero temps but it is possible to get it to take 30-40 degrees out of the air.

That 30-40 degrees if possible with the DEI would make a significant difference.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:24 pm

That interfreezer seems like it would be a restriction of the intake air otehrwise. Probably installing that without cooling the air would rob you of hp.

The DEI is aerodynamic but prob doesn't cool as well. You prob wont' see as much of a hp loss either if not using the CO2 at the time as compared to the interfreezer.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:59 pm

Shaun41178(2) wrote:That interfreezer seems like it would be a restriction of the intake air otehrwise. Probably installing that without cooling the air would rob you of hp.

I was thinking about that, but what if the area of the holes equaled the area of the intake it replaced? Do you think it would make a significant diferance in daily driving? I mean, since you'd be chilling when HP really mattered.

Forgive me if that doesn't make sense. My shrink has me on new meds that are fucking with my thought processes.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:32 pm

Shaun41178(2) wrote:It doesnt' take much surface area to really cool down air. An ac unit doesn't really have a thick core to drop temps but yet it still gets the air cold. Sure it doesnt' get it to sub zero temps but it is possible to get it to take 30-40 degrees out of the air.

Dude, any heat exchanger is ALL ABOUT surface area. Consider the A/C evaporator that you say "doesn't have much surface area"... Go count the number of fins in it, then multiply by the area of a single fin (the length of a fin--whichever direction it runs--times the thickness of the core). It's got a lot of surface area.

Now if you gave it less cross sectional area and made it thicker, you'd have the same surface area, but it would be less efficient and more of a restriction because of the length of the small passages through it.

So something like what's pictured would be a restriction even if the total area was the same as the pipe into which it is spliced. The total area would have to be larger.

However, the cooling effect removes the restriction. The mass flow at the inlet becomes a smaller volume of flow at the outlet, due to the cooling effect. This lowers the pressure seen by the hotter air at the inlet.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:58 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Something like a PWR barrel intercooler could be used as well.

I was thinking about one of those barrel heat exchangers but replace the oil line with the CO2 line and run the air in place of coolant.

its an interesting idea at least --

according to the website that little prechiller has shown temp drops of 50 degrees but it does look a littl restrictive - having something more like the maff screen hit sub zero temps to chill the air would be better i'd imagine.

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:19 am

Won't a 30 or 50 shot of nitrous do the exact same thing but with added benefits? It will cool the intake charge and give you extra oxygen to burn. I've also heard of people doing propane/nitrous injection to get the lowest possible intake temps they can. May as well have a power adder to go with the cooling effect.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:44 am

crzyone wrote:Won't a 30 or 50 shot of nitrous do the exact same thing but with added benefits? It will cool the intake charge and give you extra oxygen to burn. I've also heard of people doing propane/nitrous injection to get the lowest possible intake temps they can. May as well have a power adder to go with the cooling effect.

except co2 is dirt cheap and street legal you can get a co2 refill at walmart for like 2$

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:33 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
Dude, any heat exchanger is ALL ABOUT surface area. Consider the A/C evaporator that you say "doesn't have much surface area"... Go count the number of fins in it, then multiply by the area of a single fin (the length of a fin--whichever direction it runs--times the thickness of the core). It's got a lot of surface area.

You are correct and I didnt' explain what I meant clearly. What I meant to say is that an a/c or hell even a heater core, for as small as it is, increases the temp of the air flowing through it dramatically. On a 20 degree day your heater core can get the air temp up to like 90 degress in the cabin or even hotter. Thats a large temp jump when pulling in cold outside air.

With the actual heater core being so small, its a significant temp drop. But yes its a lot of surface area in a small space that allows that.

Sorry for the lack of explanation

That DEI has a smaller surface area then the other kit, but I am sure still gets temps to drop dramitically either way.

And the reason why people dont' always spray nitrous to cool the air is because people just dont' want to spray nitrous for whatever reason they can think of. Being called a cheater, or a previous bad experience or whatever otehr reason. There is also still a bad stigma out there that nitrous is an instant engine destructor so would rather not mess with it.

Me personally would probably spray nitrous into my engine to cool the intake air with a forced induction setup. The nitrous comes out at temps of -276 degrees That will signifcantly pull heat out of the incoming air. Just a small bit will do wonders. But thats just me.

txf · Post by **txf** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:16 pm

Just remember that if ANY CO2 is vented into the engine compartment then it will displace the Oxygen in it and ROB HP. It's been proven. And capitolized on with the Cheetah Tips.

Using this could slow your competition's Launch

Edited to change pic old pic WAY TO BIG

Post by **eHoward** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:48 pm

Never thought about using it like that, but that's all I ever thought when people talked about using C02 to cool an intake charge.

txf wrote:Just remember that if ANY CO2 is vented into the engine compartment then it will displace the Oxygen in it and ROB HP. I

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:44 pm

There are CO2 kits made to fit on the front of intercoolers and spray directly onto the intercooler to cool intake temps. Although this is for a turbo setup.

Why do we want to cool NA motors intake charges again? I could see doing it a a drag strip to get every last hp. Whats cold air worth? 5hp at the maximum? I would think if you kept the intake pipe cold enough, eventually you can restrict your intake tube with ice from condensing water onto the very cold pipe. Very real problem where I work.

txf · Post by **txf** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:49 pm

Spray bars aren't worth it. With NO2 they give an increase in power due to injesting it in the intake. Using CO2 you'll lose HP.

http://www.cryofuzion.com/spraybar.htm

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:56 am

The Cryofuzion is looking awfully appealing to me. It stays pretty cool around here, around 70 degrees year round, and it's fairly dry. I like the idea of on demand HP, but Nitrous Oxide just concerns me, plus it's expensive, plus it's not smog legal. Seems like this would be the silver bullet for my application.

I take it I wouldn't want to combine this with water injection, would I? Spray Slushie into the blower?

txf · Post by **txf** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:19 am

The CO2 will probibly eliminate teh need for the H2O injection. Cooler Air means less spark retard needed.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:34 am

txf wrote:Just remember that if ANY CO2 is vented into the engine compartment then it will displace the Oxygen in it and ROB HP. It's been proven. And capitolized on with the Cheetah Tips.

Using this could slow your competition's Launch

Edited to change pic old pic WAY TO BIG

thats why you are careful where you vent it too - int he fiero the air intake is pretty well seperated from the rest of the engine bay so co2 ingestion shouldn't be an issue