London cops aren't fucking around.

[EBSB52]

I agree with you 100% Shaun

Your Fuehrer

Diggity"Police State is here"Biggity

Ditto..

[stimpy]

London ain't no place to be swarthy nowadays, huh?

[Lex]

London ain't no place to be swarthy nowadays, huh?

Was it ever? :dontknow: :la:

[zonyl]

They didn't shoot him on the run. They shot him after they caught him and had him on the ground.

If I suspected he was a suicide bomber, I wouldnt give him the chance to trigger the bomd laying on the ground.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Oops

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&c ... britain_dc

*YAWN*

This is why. Simply running from a pig shouldn't be reason to smoke someone. The pigs will be exonerated, there will be a multi-million $ payout, and things will return as normal.... you know, pigs shooting innocent citizens.

Didn't realize that London cops had had Israeli training. The Israelis are the best in the world at counter terrorism, but they REALLY don't fuck around, and don't even bat an eye at killing a non-Israeli.

[zonyl]

Yea I knew he didn't have a bomb on him.

Everyone is on pins and needles right now over there

Let me axe you guys something. Lets say you were running late and had to catch the bus. Some dudes in plain clothes come running after you with guns drawn. ARe you going to stop? Hell I wouldn't and I dont' think anyone else would either. he prob saw the train as his getaway from psychoes with guns running after him.

Ill probably pick up a few negatives for this, however, ....

You didnt include the whole scenario though:
- If there had been a series of suicide bombs on the bus a couple of weeks before knowing full well police are on edge at the bus station
- Also jumping over a barrier.

Yes, I would sure as hell stop.

Counter question: Did you think it was dumb that the border police let the canadian in with a bloody chainsaw?

[z.MacK]

If he had nothing to hide. Why didnt he drop to the fucking ground pronto?
Yeah three guys pull out automatics on him an tell him to hit the ground.... Yeah thats a good reason to start running away.

The police in london arnt saying anything about this so far. Saying they had, or didnt have reason to kill him is *pure speculation.

[88GTneverfinsihed]

Illegal immigrant, didn't understand english, got spooked and ran like a scared rabbit.

Can't really blame him. Can't really blame the cops after what happened the week before.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what terrorism is designed to do.

Too bad bushco fell face first into it and actually managed to augment it rather than reduce it.

Hey george, still waiting for osama's head. You promised remember?

We didn't want saddam pulled out of a rat hole, we want osama pulled out of that hole

[Aaron]

I swear to God, anyone near me holds a gun of any sort, and yells anything, you bet your ass I'm stopping. He was in a huge croud, what are they gonna do, kidnap him?

[Doug Chase]

They didn't shoot him on the run. They shot him after they caught him and had him on the ground.

If I suspected he was a suicide bomber, I wouldnt give him the chance to trigger the bomd laying on the ground.

Then I want more competent cops. If the only way that three guys can control a man they already have on the ground is to shoot him five times, then that's a sad state of affairs. All of the cops involved in this should be in jail. The cowards panicked and an innocent person is dead.

That article pissed me off, too. Did it seem to anybody else that the article went something like "Terrorists! Terrorists! (oh by the way we shot an innocent guy) Terrorists! Terrorists!"?

Doug

[Doug Chase]

The police in london arnt saying anything about this so far.

You mean besides this?

Police expressed regret for the tragedy and named the innocent victim as Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year-old electrician who had been living in London for three years.

[DiggityBiggity]

:blah5:

That's how I feel.. it's only matter of time before we can't go state to state in this country without internal passports.. everyone be afraid.. or the terrorists win.. oh, wait a second.. I though fear what the terrorists vehicle? No.. no.. ignore that..

Your Fuehrer

DiggityBiggles

[EBSB52]

They didn't shoot him on the run. They shot him after they caught him and had him on the ground.

If I suspected he was a suicide bomber, I wouldnt give him the chance to trigger the bomd laying on the ground.

Do you really think that's a desireable from of gov to have cops shooting people they *THINK* might be terrorists? Right now Hitler is rolling in his grave saying, "Oh the humanity."

Furthermore, don't you think the terrorists are high-fiving and feeling prety good about themselves? I mean, killing innocent people the cops think are suspects is part of the agenda of terror. Creating such fear that paranioa ensues IS part ofthe terrorist agenda, so they've won once again.

Truth is, they're willing to commit these acts, and they're doing so because tehy're pissed that we are fucking around intheir backyard. so we have choices and we're chosing to engage in part of this religious battle on the side of Israel, bringing the killing to our streets.

If I suspected he was a suicide bomber, I wouldnt give him the chance to trigger the bomd laying on the ground.

Fortunately for you, you wouldn't be taxed with having to tell the family that you just murdered their son, husband, father......

[EBSB52]

Yea I knew he didn't have a bomb on him.

Everyone is on pins and needles right now over there

Let me axe you guys something. Lets say you were running late and had to catch the bus. Some dudes in plain clothes come running after you with guns drawn. ARe you going to stop? Hell I wouldn't and I dont' think anyone else would either. he prob saw the train as his getaway from psychoes with guns running after him.

Ill probably pick up a few negatives for this, however, ....

You didnt include the whole scenario though:
- If there had been a series of suicide bombs on the bus a couple of weeks before knowing full well police are on edge at the bus station
- Also jumping over a barrier.

Yes, I would sure as hell stop.

Counter question: Did you think it was dumb that the border police let the canadian in with a bloody chainsaw?

"If there had been a series of suicide bombs on the bus a couple of weeks before knowing full well police are on edge at the bus station"

Wait, let's pass legislation that invokes laws allowing sneek-n-peek searches, circumvention of most Constitutional rights, especially 4th, long lines at airports taking fingernail clippers, and all kinds of invasive, meaningless acts...... oh wait, someone's allready done that.

Recent bombings don't give license for killings in a descent country. They've really won. They don't care about 1 death, but the paranoia factor has become mature and their goals are coming to fruition. We tell the mas population of the Arabs that they should control their gov and their internal terorists, well, I'm sure they're saying we should control our government too..... citizens (of both countries) 0 / terrorists 1.

"Also jumping over a barrier."

Don't you think most terrorists would act very subdued? With a heterogeneous society there is no way to win this.

[EBSB52]

:blah5:

That's how I feel.. it's only matter of time before we can't go state to state in this country without internal passports.. everyone be afraid.. or the terrorists win.. oh, wait a second.. I though fear what the terrorists vehicle? No.. no.. ignore that..

Your Fuehrer

DiggityBiggles

Don't think for a second that the terrorists that run this country don't want this too. They're taking a bad situation and using it to pass already drafted legislation. Don't think for a second they don't have legislation drafted designed to accomplish your above sentiments just awaiting the next disaster. Could the anti-Patriot Act have passed without 9/11?

[zonyl]

They didn't shoot him on the run. They shot him after they caught him and had him on the ground.

If I suspected he was a suicide bomber, I wouldnt give him the chance to trigger the bomd laying on the ground.

Do you really think that's a desireable from of gov to have cops shooting people they *THINK* might be terrorists? Right now Hitler is rolling in his grave saying, "Oh the humanity."

Furthermore, don't you think the terrorists are high-fiving and feeling prety good about themselves? I mean, killing innocent people the cops think are suspects is part of the agenda of terror. Creating such fear that paranioa ensues IS part ofthe terrorist agenda, so they've won once again.

Truth is, they're willing to commit these acts, and they're doing so because tehy're pissed that we are fucking around intheir backyard. so we have choices and we're chosing to engage in part of this religious battle on the side of Israel, bringing the killing to our streets.

If I suspected he was a suicide bomber, I wouldnt give him the chance to trigger the bomd laying on the ground.

Fortunately for you, you wouldn't be taxed with having to tell the family that you just murdered their son, husband, father......

There is no right answer to this. How would you like to tell the family(s) that they lost their sons, husbands, fathers, because _you_ let someone who (1. after previous bombings, 2. Looked Suspcious, 3. Ran from police, 4 Jumped barrier onto train, 5. blew up the train)

Damned if you do, damned if you dont. The only difference is that in the real scenario someone who was not a rational person (and in the act of committing a crime) ran from police and got shot. The other scenario you propose could have far worse results. Interesting how he would be lauded as a national hero for his decisions if the guy did have a bomb (a lot of people wouldnt have even challenged that reasoning then)

You have a good point about the terrorists goal of instilling terror and having succeeded. Problem is, if it wasnt such a good strategy they wouldnt be willing to die for it.

[EBSB52]

They didn't shoot him on the run. They shot him after they caught him and had him on the ground.

If I suspected he was a suicide bomber, I wouldnt give him the chance to trigger the bomd laying on the ground.

Do you really think that's a desireable from of gov to have cops shooting people they *THINK* might be terrorists? Right now Hitler is rolling in his grave saying, "Oh the humanity."

Furthermore, don't you think the terrorists are high-fiving and feeling prety good about themselves? I mean, killing innocent people the cops think are suspects is part of the agenda of terror. Creating such fear that paranioa ensues IS part ofthe terrorist agenda, so they've won once again.

Truth is, they're willing to commit these acts, and they're doing so because tehy're pissed that we are fucking around intheir backyard. so we have choices and we're chosing to engage in part of this religious battle on the side of Israel, bringing the killing to our streets.

If I suspected he was a suicide bomber, I wouldnt give him the chance to trigger the bomd laying on the ground.

Fortunately for you, you wouldn't be taxed with having to tell the family that you just murdered their son, husband, father......

There is no right answer to this. How would you like to tell the family(s) that they lost their sons, husbands, fathers, because _you_ let someone who (1. after previous bombings, 2. Looked Suspcious, 3. Ran from police, 4 Jumped barrier onto train, 5. blew up the train)

Damned if you do, damned if you dont. The only difference is that in the real scenario someone who was not a rational person (and in the act of committing a crime) ran from police and got shot. The other scenario you propose could have far worse results. Interesting how he would be lauded as a national hero for his decisions if the guy did have a bomb (a lot of people wouldnt have even challenged that reasoning then)

You have a good point about the terrorists goal of instilling terror and having succeeded. Problem is, if it wasnt such a good strategy they wouldnt be willing to die for it.

It is a tough decision to make; liberty versus profiling and safety. Something will give and we can make arguments for each side. Truth is that if we just got out of their business things would likely go away, and by that I mean to divorce Israel too. Hell, offer Israelis assylum here, and those who choose to stay undergo the risk of dying for their religious war. We started or at least perpetuated this whole thing in 1948 with the establishment of Israel and our major part, so let's undo that and get out; but gas from them and they won't kill their customers. The American bloodthirsty protocol won't allow this to happen, but if peace was our agenda and not Imperialistic control we would just get out.

Problem is, if it wasnt such a good strategy they wouldnt be willing to die for it.


I think they're willing to die for the religious ideology rather than the strategy, but they are willing to die for it and it's not a country, so that makes it incredibly more difficult. I think this is the first time we've fought a major militant group rather than a country. This, '20 paces, turn and fight' rules mentality is long gone, but let's not act as if the US is playing fair either.

How would you like to tell the family(s) that they lost their sons, husbands, fathers, because _you_ let someone who
1. after previous bombings,
2. Looked Suspcious,
3. Ran from police,
4 Jumped barrier onto train,
5. blew up the train

I could explain that there was substantial doubt as to the actual identity and agenda of that person; could be late, could have been scared runing from PLAIN CLOTHED OFFICERS, could have been kids screwing around. I would explain that if I shot every time I saw a potentially suspicious person I would buy my bullets by the gross.

Here's a suggestion, make a 100% solid barrier at the train stattion to where there is no hopping over? Make it a magnetrometer followed by a turnstile that goes to the ceiling. Kinda Nai-like, but we asked for it when we fucked around over there. Were we so arrogant and ignorant to think they would have just kept takiong it?

Interesting how he would be lauded as a national hero for his decisions if the guy did have a bomb (a lot of people wouldnt have even challenged that reasoning then)

This is kind of, 'ends justifies the means' here. You're right, but it isn't reliable logic to shoot until you hit a deserving target, then claim to be a hero.

We keep looking for ways out of this, truth is that the egos who run this country/war won't allow this to happen. Someone has to step down, hell, it took them almost 15 years during Viet Nam, what makes anyone think this will be quicker?

[zonyl]

I could explain that there was substantial doubt as to the actual identity and agenda of that person; could be late, could have been scared runing from PLAIN CLOTHED OFFICERS, could have been kids screwing around. I would explain that if I shot every time I saw a potentially suspicious person I would buy my bullets by the gross.

Unfortunately there are people that would see it differently and most of those are the same ones ordering the review of border entry into the US in the Canadian chainsaw case letting a suspicious man through.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/12056337.htm

Its amazing that our country manages to do anything given the great divide of people, those that want more invasive government and equally those that dont.

Here's a suggestion, make a 100% solid barrier at the train stattion to where there is no hopping over? Make it a magnetrometer followed by a turnstile that goes to the ceiling. Kinda Nai-like, but we asked for it when we fucked around over there. Were we so arrogant and ignorant to think they would have just kept takiong it?

Interesting how he would be lauded as a national hero for his decisions if the guy did have a bomb (a lot of people wouldnt have even challenged that reasoning then)

This is kind of, 'ends justifies the means' here. You're right, but it isn't reliable logic to shoot until you hit a deserving target, then claim to be a hero.

We keep looking for ways out of this, truth is that the egos who run this country/war won't allow this to happen. Someone has to step down, hell, it took them almost 15 years during Viet Nam, what makes anyone think this will be quicker?

I personally share a lot of libertarian views on many issues (this not being one of them) nor do I share the view of isolationism. This country switches out its main agenda at least every 8 years, and we are bound to get someone who makes a huge mistake in office at some point or another. This leads to big groups of people holding some sort of disdain for American policy (at that time) that will bleed on for centuries more.

My biggest fear about staying out of other's politics is that terrorist groups (could even consider countries as terrorist groups) left alone will devise better mechanisms to commit bigger acts of terror (they started with spears, guns, black powder, dynamite, now C4, and in the future?).

To bring back the "end justifys means" argument: Lets say we left Afghanistan and the rest of the UAE / Israel alone. 15 years from now, the terrorists groups that are still pissed about GW (Sr and Jr) decisions back from before, work unfettered towards obtaining suitcase nuclear bombs. 15 years from now Chicago, LA, and NY go up in a cloud of burning radioactive dust with banners of "Remember Desert Storm" flying overhead. You had better believe a lot of the people that wanted to stay out of foreign affairs will be wishing they instead got more involved.

To me it seems too connected to try and stay out. The minute we interacted with someone from a different group of people, we cannot just undo that interaction by ignoring them.

[stimpy]

There is no right answer to this. How would you like to tell the family(s) that they lost their sons, husbands, fathers, because _you_ let someone who (1. after previous bombings, 2. Looked Suspcious, 3. Ran from police, 4 Jumped barrier onto train, 5. blew up the train)

Well, if he had had a bomb, none of those cops would have had that issue, as they'd have all been dead. It just doesn't seem to me that in situations like that you have much time for discretion. Yeah, the cop made the wrong decision in retrospect, and he'll have to live with that, but he had to make a decision at the time and I think it would be one that a lot of us would make out of self preservation, despite our value of life.

[DiggityBiggity]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050722/D8BGJ8J80.html

It's only a matter of time before they tell us we need a chip in our arms to be safe.. because, you know.. if you can get a chip, it means you aren't a terrorist..

http://www.adsx.com/prodservpart/verichip.html

It's FDA approved.. oh.. and once we all get our National ID Cards.. they have R.F.I.D. techonology.. and it will be illegal to travel without it..

It's time to switch my name... from this moment on.. I am no longer the Fuehrer..

Your Paranoid Leader

DiggityBizzles