London cops aren't fucking around.

[DiggityBiggity]

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=7189

Police State says prof.

Your paranoid leader

DiggityBizzles

[The Dark Side of Will]

What he actually says is that he is worried more by the fact that police could do such a thing than by the threat of suicide bombers. He argues that the officers involved should be prosectued and and goes on to list several reasons why. He then decries proposed anti-terrorism laws that unduly restrict the British equivalent of Freedom of Expression. The only place in that article in which the words "police state" occur are the first two word of the article, which I read as the journalist introducing the topic, or the professor touching on the subject because that's what everyone else is saying, not necessarily that he thinks that England IS a police state, but that the changes that are being proposed are alarming.

[EBSB52]

It is shown that these guys aren't affraid of us or of Russia, so if Russia learned their lessonthen why can't we? Is this another space-race where Russia was unable so we beat them to it?

<sprays orange juics all over computer screen>
Are you trying to say that Russia pulled out of the 'Stan because they wanted to be friendly?!?

Russia pulled out of Afghanistan because they finally realized, quite simply, that THEY WERE NOT UP TO THE TASK.

Shortly after we went into Afghanistan and accomplished in a matter of weeks what the Russians failed to do in 15 years, a high Russian official (maybe even Putin himself, I don't remember) said something to the effect of "The Americans have revealed the gap between their capabilities and ours and it is vast"

<sprays cum all over computer screen>

Quit blowing your bf while you read the site then..... I recently read somewhere that conservatives use antecdotes to distract from actualy adressing substantive assertions from others.... holds to be true.

Are you trying to say that Russia pulled out of the 'Stan because they wanted to be friendly?!?

Where did I infer anything about friendly? I just said they learned their lesson. The lesson being that they couldn't win that war.

Russia pulled out of Afghanistan because they finally realized, quite simply, that THEY WERE NOT UP TO THE TASK.


Right, nor are we. We have done nothing but to get thousands killed. Once we leave they will revert back to the way they were. Is the answer to continue to occupy them forever?

Shortly after we went into Afghanistan and accomplished in a matter of weeks what the Russians failed to do in 15 years, a high Russian official (maybe even Putin himself, I don't remember) said something to the effect of "The Americans have revealed the gap between their capabilities and ours and it is vast"

I didin't read that and think it has no bearing on the issue of whether we can have lasting success or not. Truth is, we did the same thing in Viet Nam, 15 years w/o lasting result, so where's the beef? You can wave your flag all you want, but we will have the same success in Iraq as we did in VN; killing hundreds of thousands while accomplishing zero.

[EBSB52]

I was saying that comparing Hitler to the Iraqi's or the insurgents wasn't valid. Hiltler's agenda was to overtake the world thru invasion and inhilation, the insurgents just want the Christians to stay out of their business.

OBL has been a terrorist for years and years, even before Gulf War I.
They're not Iraq's insurgents.

We made their cause killing us by invading them and screwing around in their region. As for walking away causing a chase, how do you know?

They've already shown that they can and will bring the fight to our doorstep. It has happened more than twice. What makes you think it won't happen again if we give them breathing room to grow again and restore their forces?
Also, look at the things they are attacking... Did they blow up the Washington monument? Did they blow up the Jefferson memorial? Lincoln Memorial? Did they attack symbols of American history? Of American independence?
NO. They attacked the world trade center and attempted to attack the Pentagon. They attacked symbols of American wealth, prosperity and power. They don't have beef with America... They have a beef with our entire western way of life, extending to our Allies with similar world view, as recently evidenced by the attacks in London.

They recognize that as long the most powerful nations in the world espouse freedom they will always be running like rats not be able to terrorize on a broad scale to effect their political goals, which include the virtual enslavement of people under their radical Muslim rule. How is that different than Hitler?
They are indeed fighting for their religion, but that perticular religion is one that will fight anyone, even mainstream Muslim, not just Christianity. How many of the attacks actually target Americans now? The majority are actually targeting Iraqis. They are trying to sow hate and discontent among the people to make our position untenable. That is how we must fight them. We must make the people sufficiently happy that they won't stand for terrorism. It's already begun, as there has been at least one instance of Iraqi civilians gunning down a terrorist who started shooting up a marketplace.
Current terrorist strategy in Iraq is essentially this: "We are attacking you and making you miserable because the Americans are here. You should hate the Americans and not us". This is obviously a last ditch effort of a seriously weakened force. I don't think the Iraqi people are going to fall for it, though.

If we stated this new policy, I believe the Middle East would realize anything started would be on their heads. The way it is now the world feels we are at fault so whatever happens reflects badly upon us.

This policy is untenable because we now have an obligation to finish what we started and get Iraq back on its feet and able to defend itself from these insurgents and terrorists.
If we pulled out of the ME entirely, how long do you think it would be before the Saudis asked us to come back and help them deal with their twice weekly school bus bomings? It wouldn't take long.

These issues primarily surround religion, IMO.

The violence is driven by religion, all right, but by a variety of religion that is irreconciliable with anything else. There can be no compromise.

This war between the Israelis and the Arabs over territory and religion is their business and we need to start backing out and let them resolve these issues. IF they kill each other we can sit from afar and say, 'tisk, tisk.' But at least we don't kill our own and look bad to the world.

IIRC, Diggitybiggity decried our lack of involvement in Darfur and other genocidal conflicts. If he doesn't have fun with this one... my suspicions will be confirmed.

How do we make their breeding grounds infertile? Is this inhilation? Improving quality of life thru forced Christianity?

Where on earth did this come from? Stop making blind accusations. We're not forcing Christianity on anyone.
I've touched on the "breeding grounds" issue above in this post...
People don't fight unless they're unhappy. It's easy for a Muslim extremist who just emptied the contents of his chamber pot into the street to hate the American way of life. It's much harder for him to do so when he just flushed his toilet and is on his way to the bidet.

OBL has been a terrorist for years and years, even before Gulf War I.
They're not Iraq's insurgents.

Riiight, that’s true, but the convolution of 9/11, OBL and Iraq is uncanny. You can pretend Bush is severing his actions against Iraq as something sole and separate from OBL and 9/11. I’ll repost my assertion so you can actually address what I wrote:

“I was saying that comparing Hitler to the Iraqi's or the insurgents wasn't valid. Hitler’s agenda was to overtake the world thru invasion and inhalation, the insurgents just want the Christians to stay out of their business.â€

[The Dark Side of Will]

[quote="EBSB52"]
“I was saying that comparing Hitler to the Iraqi's or the insurgents wasn't valid. Hitler’s agenda was to overtake the world thru invasion and inhalation, the insurgents just want the Christians to stay out of their business.â€