Upcoming 3800 SC recall -- what you should know

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Sinister Fiero
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Upcoming 3800 SC recall -- what you should know

Post by Sinister Fiero »

First, some documentation on the upcoming recall:
Date: March 12, 2008

Subject: Upcoming Safety Recall 07035
Potential Under hood Fire - 3.8 L Supercharged
Engine

Models: 1997-2003 Buick Regal GS
1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
With 3.8 L V6 Supercharged Engine (VIN1 –
RPO L67) LISTED BELOW

To: All Buick and Pontiac Dealers

Attention: Service Manager, Parts Manager, and
Warranty Administrator

Based on information from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) website, the media may report that General Motors will be announcing a safety recall involving certain 1997-2003 model year Buick Regal GS and Pontiac Grand Prix GTP vehicles equipped with a 3.8 L supercharged engine (VIN 1 – RPO L67).

These vehicles may experience an under hood fire. The fires may be caused by drops of engine oil being deposited on the exhaust manifold through hard braking. If the manifold is hot enough and the oil runs below the heat shield, it may ignite into a small flame in and in some instances the fire may spread to the plastic spark plug wire channel. Most cases have occurred five to ten minutes after the vehicle has been turned off.

If a fire occurs, it may cascade through the engine compartment causing vehicle damage and in some cases, the fire may spread to structures where the vehicle was parked.

A total of 207,542 U.S. vehicles are involved. We are currently working with our suppliers to obtain parts required to launch a safety recall in the near future. However, in the interim, a customer advisory letter (see attached) is being sent to all customers of record to inform them of this situation. This letter will also provide three important precautions the customer should take: 1) Do not park the vehicle in a garage, car port or other structure. 2) If a burning odor is detected, the customer should take their vehicle to a dealer for inspection. 3) Customers should use premium fuel (91 octane or higher) as recommended in their vehicle owner's manual. The customer letter will be mailed on March 13, 2008.

If a customer comes in with this letter or is otherwise concerned about this condition, please use Technical Service Bulletin 08-06-04-019 to service their vehicle. Please note that there are two T labor operations listed. Warranty claims should be submitted using the specific T labor operation depending on the source of the gasket (GM or aftermarket) you install in the vehicle. The use of the two T labor operations may allow GM different options when the recall is officially released. The Technical Service Bulletin 08-06-04-019 is available in SI on March 12, 2008 and is attached for your convenience.

After the repair is complete, the customer will be ableto park their car in their garage, car port or other structure.

A Frequently Asked Question and Answer document has been developed for your reference. This FAQ will help answer any customer concerns. Please see the attached Dealer FAQ's.

GMVIS information will not be available for this recall until the recall bulletin is released to dealers
************************************************** ***************************************

POTENTIAL QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Q1: What vehicles are involved?
A1: All 1997-2003 model year Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and Buick Regal GS vehicles equipped with the 3.8-liter L67 supercharged engine. A total of 207,542 U.S. vehicles are involved.

Q2: What is the condition?
A2: These vehicles may experience an under hood fire. We believe the fire may be caused by drops of engine oil being deposited on the exhaust manifold through hard braking. If the manifold is hot enough and the oil runs below the heat shield, it may ignite into a small flame and in some instances the fire may spread to the plastic spark plug wire channel. Most cases have occurred five to 10 minutes after the vehicle has been turned off.

Q3: What are the consequences of this condition?
A3: Fire may cascade through the engine compartment causing vehicle damage. In some cases, the fire has spread to structures where the vehicles were parked.

Q4: How was this condition discovered?
A4: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened a preliminary evaluation in January 2007 based on 21 customer complaints alleging engine compartment fires after their vehicles were turned off. GM began an extensive investigation.

Q5: Why didn’t GM know about this?
A5: The rate of occurrence was very low, about one in 1,000 vehicles.

Q6: Have there been any injuries or deaths resulting from this condition?
A6: We are aware of five minor injuries and one moderate injury. No fatalities.

Q7: How many fires have there been?
A7: We are aware of 267 fires to date.

Q8: What about property damage?
A8: We are aware of 17 fires involving structure damage.

Q9: What is GM doing to correct this condition?
A9: Due to parts availability, corrective action will occur in two stages. First, a "customer advisory letter" is being sent to each involved customer of record. This letter will explain the situation and provide precautionary measures that a customer can take until their vehicle is repaired. The letter will be mailed on March 13, 2008.

The second stage will be the release of Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 to all Pontiac and Buick dealers. This will occur once an adequate supply of recall parts is available. At that time, all involved customers of record will be notified via a second letter to bring their vehicle in for the required repair.

Q10: If I have one of these vehicles, is it safe to drive?
A10: Yes. Very few of the fires (about 20 percent of the reported cases) have occurred while the vehicle’s engine was running. The rate of occurrence is also very low, about one in 1,000 vehicles.

Q11: Is there anything I can do to prevent a fire after the vehicle is turned off?
A11: No.We believe the fires may be caused by drops of engine oil being deposited on the exhaust manifold through hard braking. For now we are urging customers to avoid parking their vehicles in a garage, car port or other structure and to use premium fuel (91 octane or higher) in their vehicles, as recommended in their owner’s manual. If you smell any kind of burning odor, have the vehicle inspected by a dealership service department.

Q12: The customer advisory letter mentions oil getting on the manifold during hard braking. Is there a problem with the brake system?
A12: No.

Q13: The customer advisory letter mentions premium fuel. Why is this important?
A13: Because the vehicle was designed to run on 91-octane fuel, using lower-octane fuel increases under hood temperatures during operation.

Q14: Are the 1997-2003 Pontiac Bonneville, Buick Park Avenue and Riviera, and Oldsmobile LSS involved or any vehicles with 3.8L engines without superchargers involved?
A14: No, they are not part of this field action.

Q15: Who will pay for the repairs?
A15: Repairs will be made free of charge to customers.

Q16: I heard that there were under hood fires in Chevrolet Tahoe’s. Is this the same issue?
A16: No. NHTSA opened a preliminary evaluation in February based on two customer complaints of under hood fires in 2007 model year Tahoe’s. We are cooperating with the agency but we have found no trend suggesting a recurring problem. The Tahoes and GMC Yukons being investigated are of a different architecture and were produced much later than the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and Buick Regal GS.

Q17: Until Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 is released, what can dealers do to satisfy customers who may express a concern, or request an immediate repair?
A17: Until GM parts are available for this recall and Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 is released, GM has provided dealers with Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04- 019.The bulletin provides repair instructions for those customers who have an immediate concern with their 1997-2003 model year Pontiac Grand Prix or Buick Regal vehicle equipped with the 3.8-liter L67 supercharged engine.

Q18: When will the GM Vehicle Inquiry System (GMVIS) be loaded?
A18: Involved VINs can not be loaded to GMVIS until Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 is released.

Q19: After completing Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04-019, is it safe for customers to utilize parking structures?
A19: Yes.

Q20: If the parts required to perform Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04-019are in short supply, can aftermarket parts be used to complete the repair?
A20: GM approved parts are preferred, however, for the immediate repair outlined in Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04-019, locally obtained aftermarket parts may be used. Dealers should be sure to submit a warranty claim with the correct "T" labor operation when using aftermarket gaskets. Specific details are provided in the technical service bulletin.

Q21: If a customer had the front engine rocker cover gasket recently replaced on their 1997-2003 model year Pontiac Grand Prix or Buick Regal vehicle equipped with the 3.8-liter L67 supercharged engine, should dealers replace the front rocker cover gasket again?
A21: If the front rocker cover gasket was replaced by a General Motors dealer using GM Part #24503937, then the gasket does not need to be replaced again. The technician should complete the technical service bulletin repair by removing the spark plug channel retainer and install the spark plug retainers as outlined in the procedure. If the customer paid for the gasket replacement, there will be reimbursement instructions provided when the recall is released.

Q22: Why does the procedure only call for the replacement of the front engine rocker cover gasket and not both?
A22: GM’s investigation has not shown a need to replace the rear gasket.

Q23: An owner of an involved vehicle has concerns and requested immediate assistance. Upon inspection it is noted during the replacement of the front rocker cover gasket that the rear engine rocker cover gasket shows signs of oil seepage - should the rear gasket be replaced as well?
A23: Replacement of the rear engine rocker cover gasket is not part of the service bulletin repair procedure. Customers may wish to have the rear cover gasket repaired as part of customer paid vehicle maintenance.

Q24: Why aren’t 1997-2003 model year Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick Regal vehicles with the L36 non-supercharged engine involved in this safety recall?
A24: GM’s Investigation has shown that the supercharged engine has unique operating characteristics not present with the L36 non-supercharged engine. Specifically, the L67 supercharged engine has a significantly higher normal under hood operating temperature.

Q25: Why are two "T" labor operations listed in Technical Service Bulletin #08-06-04- 019?
A25: As detailed in the technical service bulletin, warranty claims should be submitted using the specific "T" labor operation depending on the source of the gasket used by the dealership. The use of the two "T" labor operations allows GM different options when Safety Recall Bulletin #07035 is released.
I believe the cause of this problem is due to defective material being used in factory valve cover gaskets. GM changed the type of sealing agent they used to make the valve cover gaskets for the 3800's twice, if I remember correctly. The latest gasket material is dark grey in color. The factory gasket was orange, and I have seen quite a few that were beginning to fail by the time I got to the engine, even those used on 3800 Series 2 nat. asp. L36 engines. As with any recall, GM is only going to include the bare minimum number of cars in the recall they can get away with. However, I believe this recall is eventually going to be expanded to include more years and platforms before this is over. I just did an upper engine reseal on a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix L67 which isn't covered in this recall and it still had the orange valve cover gaskets and they were leaking horribly.

AS FIERO OWNERS WITH 3800 SWAPS, the only cause for concern you should have would be if your engine doesn't have the latest valve cover gaskets installed. If your engine is not using the latest dark grey GM valve cover gaskets, I would highly recommend replacing them. If your engine still has the plastic spark plug wire retainer that slips on the front valve cover, you might also consider removing it, as this recall specifies. In addition, a little bit of common sense goes a long way here. If your engine is leaking ANYTHING, you should have the leak repaired.

-ryan
OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED
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darkhorizon
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Post by darkhorizon »

My valve covers are horrid, they are stock orange with tons of RTV all over them... I need to change them....
Jinxmutt
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Re: Upcoming 3800 SC recall -- what you should know

Post by Jinxmutt »

Sinister Fiero wrote: In addition, a little bit of common sense goes a long way here. If your engine is leaking ANYTHING, you should have the leak repaired.

-ryan
I think thats the most important part. A majority of GTP owners probably just drive them, do required maintenance, as a little as necessary to keep the up and running.

I would hope that it wouldn't apply to fiero owners to swap the engine with leaking components. I'm not sure which gaskets I have. They're not leaking at the moment, but I will be sure to check/change them when I switch the intake manifold.
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Re: Upcoming 3800 SC recall -- what you should know

Post by Sinister Fiero »

Jinxmutt wrote:
I would hope that it wouldn't apply to fiero owners to swap the engine with leaking components.
You would be surprised (or maybe not) how cheap some Fiero owners try to be, even in the midst of doing an engine swap where they are already spending thousands of dollars.

I've pretty much implemented the policy for all my engine swaps that if there are any "questionable" gaskets on an engine I am installing, or the particular engine being installed has been known to have sealing issues, that I pretty much require the customer have those gaskets changed; that is if they want me to do the swap. You can bet that in a Fiero without any radiator cooling fans blowing on that front head that the risk of fire is going to be greater than it would have been in the donor car.
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Post by darkhorizon »

I am cheap, and I reused mine, and my dirty valve covers are the result.

I will get around to changing them out soon, maybe I can get the dealer to get it for me lol.
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Post by p8ntman442 »

so the recall fix is a oil change to synthetic? I remember blowing my oil pressure gauge line over my cat, but it was rotella so I was ok. And I was pulling out of the shop, so the motor was ok as I saw the puddle of oil.
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Re: Upcoming 3800 SC recall -- what you should know

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Sinister Fiero wrote:
Jinxmutt wrote:
I would hope that it wouldn't apply to fiero owners to swap the engine with leaking components.
You would be surprised (or maybe not) how cheap some Fiero owners try to be, even in the midst of doing an engine swap where they are already spending thousands of dollars.

Yeah, it's crazy. I tell people they NEED shop manuals for swaps and they complain about buying $200 worth of books for a $3-4000 engine swap...
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Re: Upcoming 3800 SC recall -- what you should know

Post by jelly2m81 »

Sinister Fiero wrote:
I've pretty much implemented the policy for all my engine swaps that if there are any "questionable" gaskets on an engine I am installing, or the particular engine being installed has been known to have sealing issues, that I pretty much require the customer have those gaskets changed; that is if they want me to do the swap. You can bet that in a Fiero without any radiator cooling fans blowing on that front head that the risk of fire is going to be greater than it would have been in the donor car.
It's a good policy Ryan, gives the customers piece of mind. Anytime I am changing an engine, or have the transmission off I always install a new rear main seal regardless and just add the couple bucks on the customers bill, no one has ever complained. Same with valve cover gaskets, and anything questionable.

Most customers, if not all gladly pay a little more for a finished product that is in top condition as can be.

If only I didn't follow that policy on my own cars, the flexplate near fell off my 4 banger Fiero a few years back, so I made a quick trip to the junkyard for a replacement and bolts and slapped it back together. Wouldn't you know not 2 weeks later the rear main let go......
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

I deleted Aaron's post because it was clueless.

Food for thought: The experience of performing an engine swap that ALMOST PLUGS RIGHT IN is completely IRRELEVANT to swaps that actually require thought.
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Post by Sinister Fiero »

For those of you who think $200 is too expensive for service manuals, there are less expensive options available.

http://www.alldata.com has decent repair information available online that starts at $24.95 for the first vehicle (less cost for additional vehicles) per year. I believe they do have Fiero coverage but their repair coverage isn't quite as good as a GM service manual. I do think their info is better than Mitchell or Chiltons.

http://www.acdelcotechconnect.com has a program where you can purchase 3-day ($20), 1-month ($150), and 1-year ($1200) subscriptions to GM Service Information. This is the same repair info the GM dealers use. However coverage is only for 1998 and newer vehicles.
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

The information is absolutely necessary.

Buying the books gives you continuous and guaranteed access to it down the road, when the car may require maintenance.

Good point on the Alldata network. I was not aware that it was so inexpensive.
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Post by Aaron »

The Dark Side of Will wrote: Food for thought: The experience of performing an engine swap that ALMOST PLUGS RIGHT IN is completely IRRELEVANT to swaps that actually require thought.
Define almost plugs right in. You must mean completely redoing the entire harness, because that's what was needed. It's just as much wiring as your N*, and once you consider the turbo, it's quite a bit more I'm sure.
The Dark Side of Will wrote:The information is absolutely necessary.

Buying the books gives you continuous and guaranteed access to it down the road, when the car may require maintenance.

Good point on the Alldata network. I was not aware that it was so inexpensive.
How so? I have all of the diagrams stored on two different computers, and have hard copies in a 3-ring binder.

Lastly, I have Alldata so there was no need for the FSM anyway. But I never even needed Alldata.
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Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Aaron wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote: Food for thought: The experience of performing an engine swap that ALMOST PLUGS RIGHT IN is completely IRRELEVANT to swaps that actually require thought.
Define almost plugs right in. You must mean completely redoing the entire harness, because that's what was needed. It's just as much wiring as your N*, and once you consider the turbo, it's quite a bit more I'm sure.
The Dark Side of Will wrote:The information is absolutely necessary.

Buying the books gives you continuous and guaranteed access to it down the road, when the car may require maintenance.

Good point on the Alldata network. I was not aware that it was so inexpensive.
How so? I have all of the diagrams stored on two different computers, and have hard copies in a 3-ring binder.

Lastly, I have Alldata so there was no need for the FSM anyway. But I never even needed Alldata.
As I said, I didn't know Alldata was that accessible.
Remember why Steven had to pull his transaxle back out? One minute in a shop manual would have prevented that. Do some real work on someone else's engineering before you say that you don't need documentation.

Have you done a Northstar harness before?
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Post by teamlseep13 »

Having the information in hand, on paper is worth so much more time than having it on a computer.
We always print out our SI diagnostics and schematics and then go to the car with them.
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Post by Aaron »

The Dark Side of Will wrote: As I said, I didn't know Alldata was that accessible.
Remember why Steven had to pull his transaxle back out? One minute in a shop manual would have prevented that. Do some real work on someone else's engineering before you say that you don't need documentation.

Have you done a Northstar harness before?
Even had it not been, I actually didn't even use it.

I haven't had to pull my transaxle out, nor have either of my 2 DOHC swaps needed to be fixed in any way that a FSM would have prevented, or helped fix.

I have not, have you done a SFI DOHC harness? For "Almost plugging right in," it sure was a lot of work. It is no different than any other engine swap, it still requires you to redo the factory harness, and work it in with the 2 Fiero connectors.
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Post by Kohburn »

Aaron wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote: As I said, I didn't know Alldata was that accessible.
Remember why Steven had to pull his transaxle back out? One minute in a shop manual would have prevented that. Do some real work on someone else's engineering before you say that you don't need documentation.

Have you done a Northstar harness before?
Even had it not been, I actually didn't even use it.

I haven't had to pull my transaxle out, nor have either of my 2 DOHC swaps needed to be fixed in any way that a FSM would have prevented, or helped fix.

I have not, have you done a SFI DOHC harness? For "Almost plugging right in," it sure was a lot of work. It is no different than any other engine swap, it still requires you to redo the factory harness, and work it in with the 2 Fiero connectors.
and rather than using a manual with wiring diagrams you got the diagrams off the web and had someone help coach you through it. had you not had all the help you would have needed a manual.
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Post by Aaron »

I called Steven once for my black car. And it was to ask what a single wire was that wasn't identified in any of the manuals. A lot of good they did.
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Post by teamlseep13 »

Sounds like operator error to me...always be 10% smarter than the tool.
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Post by Series8217 »

Aaron wrote:I called Steven once for my black car. And it was to ask what a single wire was that wasn't identified in any of the manuals. A lot of good they did.
Aaron you called me so many times during your swap I had to charge you my services. Maybe you didn't for the black car, I don't know, but you did for a DOHC swap you did. Also how many miles have you put on the black car? 1? 2? You won't know if it has issues until you get some miles on it.
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Post by Aaron »

Series8217 wrote: Aaron you called me so many times during your swap I had to charge you my services. Maybe you didn't for the black car, I don't know, but you did for a DOHC swap you did. Also how many miles have you put on the black car? 1? 2? You won't know if it has issues until you get some miles on it.
The first swap yah, it was my first time messing with electronics in my lifetime. But I only needed to call you once on the black car.

I've put about 20 on it. So far only issues are with that damned EWP.
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