Turbocharging our 1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed

[Aaron]

Hey,

well I got to talking with my dad, and somehow got the idea of a turbo in our head. So we are going to do it I think, but keep it under budget. It isn't that we don't have the money, just want to keep it low. I'm looking for 50-70hp out of this.

I don't have much determined yet, but I want to run it off the TGP bin, so Kohburn, I'll be needing your help here :thumbleft:

So far here is the plan: GT35r turbocharger (I don't go that cheap), a medium sized front mount with inlet/outlet on one side, 2.5" downpipe to stock exhaust (For now, 3" to come), 2.5" charge piping, fenderwell intake, stock injectors (24lbs, rated at 300hp max), an external wastegate, and a BOV. I havn't figured out sizes so far yet, and have yet to run the compressor maps for it, but will be doing that soon. I'm going to start at 4psi, and would like to run 6-8 everyday.

This is all on a 92 with a salvage title and brand new crate motor, 9.25:1 compression.


About the TGP bin (Kohburn): Do I just need the chip, or do I need the whole ECU? Is it plug and play? What sensors do I need to add besides the TGP MAP sensor?

Thanks a lot, and many pics to come. The car dynoed at 178whp/186wtq bone stock, I'd like to see 230whp after this.

[Kohburn]

well for mine I'm using the TGP ecm because it seemed easier at the time - but i don't see why the stock computer couldn't be burned to accept a 2bar map with new fuel tables..

the internal wastegate flapper valve cost about 50$ on ebay and I bored it out to match the ID of 2.5" tubing (it started out at 2.25")

the intercooler I am using was 24x9x3" core with 2.5" inlets - running 2.5" mandrel bent tubing to and to and from the intercooler - 3" intake tube to the turbo.. Darth burned by TGP chip to run the 3.4 with stock injectors and I had him modify a BIN file to run 36# injectors from a GTP

here is the map layout for my T04E 60trim with boost in increments of 4psi starting at 8psi - I left off the 2000rpm dot which builds 4psi



gt35r should build boost a little earlier

lets see... the stock crossover is 2.25" tubing - so more mandrel bend peices welded up for that and a second front exhaust manifold flipped for the back

[Aaron]

Well I'll talk to Darth about getting the chip burned with a 2 bar map.

As for the fuel tables, Darth worked on your chip right? If possible, I'd like to use your fuel tables as a base before I can get the car to Darth for fine tuning. I would like to keep my stock injectors, I think they can handle max of 8psi, but if need be I can go a bit bigger. I'd like to keep this relatively simple, I want it to be more liek a daily driver than a hotrodder.

TimG said that he thinks the T0460e was a bit on the small side, and I'd like to go a little bigger anyways. I will chart up the GT35r here in a day or two. That is what I like about BB turboes, they will still be at max efficiency at redline, while building boost much sooner. IMHO it will be worth the price. You are using an internal wastegate? I'd rather go external.

I already have a second manifold, so I will be using those, and building my own crossover.

[Kohburn]

Well I'll talk to Darth about getting the chip burned with a 2 bar map.

As for the fuel tables, Darth worked on your chip right? If possible, I'd like to use your fuel tables as a base before I can get the car to Darth for fine tuning. I would like to keep my stock injectors, I think they can handle max of 8psi, but if need be I can go a bit bigger. I'd like to keep this relatively simple, I want it to be more liek a daily driver than a hotrodder.

TimG said that he thinks the T0460e was a bit on the small side, and I'd like to go a little bigger anyways. I will chart up the GT35r here in a day or two. That is what I like about BB turboes, they will still be at max efficiency at redline, while building boost much sooner. IMHO it will be worth the price. You are using an internal wastegate? I'd rather go external.

I already have a second manifold, so I will be using those, and building my own crossover.

we'll see how the sizing works out when i get it dynoed hopefully next month - yeha internal wastegate mostly for space savings and the stock look - I have no qualms about upgrading to an external at a later date if needed.

for the crossover I started with the stock peice and cut the back end off after the flex section then welded up all new tubing tot he other flange.. made it real easy.

honestly i think the one thing that was the most of a PITA was taping into the oil pan while it was in the car

I thinned the metal and just barely got a hole started with a 1/2" drill bit then hammered a 1/2" spike through to open it up without putting any metal into the oilpan - then welded on a 1/2" steel hardpipe which I then connected my flexible line to

[crzyone]

Eh... put that turbo in your fiero, leave the FWD beast stock. I know it seems cool, but you'll still get walked by a modified GTP :la:

[Kohburn]

Eh... put that turbo in your fiero, leave the FWD beast stock. I know it seems cool, but you'll still get walked by a modified GTP :la:

doesn't need to be a GTP - they have a turbo kit for the 3800NA that puts out over 300whp

[Shaun41178(2)]

You are going to put a $1300 turbo to only mkae 240 whp? Whats the point? Use a regular t3/4 to do that. Save some money.

Now if you were going to push 500 whp then I say go for the 35r but spending all that money for 4 pounds of boost is retarded. There are other turbos out there that can do the same job of only 240 whp and cost a lot less.

[SappySE107]

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[Aaron]

Eh... put that turbo in your fiero, leave the FWD beast stock. I know it seems cool, but you'll still get walked by a modified GTP :la:

Well the red car is mostly my dad's, and he will be paying for it. Unfortunately he doesn't pay for my Fiero--I do. So that gets done when I have the money. I have the time though, so I think it will be fun.

I will be making my own crossover, so that way I can mount it wherever I deem best, and it will keep exhaust flow up. As for the turbo, again, my dad is paying for it, so there is no reason not to go with a good one. And who knows, maybe he'll get tired and want more :scratch:

I'll be removing the pan to tap the line into it. I will be running all braided lines with NPT fittings, I've just had really bad luck with flexible lines that clamp on, especially near really hot turboes. I'm sure your's works just fine, this isn't a "Your setup sucks thing," I just want to use all braided line. Plus, I get it for really cheap.


Hey Ben, wasn't that the same thing you said when I mentioned building my own headers? Thought so...

[The Dark Side of Will]

I believe that somewhere on the Pfiffle, Darth burned a $8f mask into a TDC computer and it worked fine, so you may not even need to change computers, just burn the TGP mask into your chip.

[Aaron]

That would be the best setup I think, changing a chip is EASY, and if it can work, great.

A guy over at the 60degree site made 212whp in his crappily turboed car at 7.5psi, but the important thing is his a:f was at 12:1 the entire run, proving the DOHC can be tuned correctly with the TGP ecu, meaning it will be with the TGP chip as well.

I will look into getting my chip changed for now by Darth, I have yet to email him. But I would liek to, as I want to start buying parts asap. Hopefully I can do the install over X-mas break, but if not spring break.

[eHoward]

I agree. Save a grand.

You are going to put a $1300 turbo to only mkae 240 whp? Whats the point? Use a regular t3/4 to do that. Save some money.

Now if you were going to push 500 whp then I say go for the 35r but spending all that money for 4 pounds of boost is retarded. There are other turbos out there that can do the same job of only 240 whp and cost a lot less.

[Aaron]

I also want the really low timing RPMs that BB turboes offer. But you guys are right, I shouldn't waste my money on that turbo.

I am going to start having fun with compressor maps tomorrow. I like the T0460e, it ran great on Tim's, but he was also only running to 6400rpm, whereas I want to go to 7150 with it pulling the entire way, so I may look into a tad bigger than that.

[Kohburn]

['ll be removing the pan to tap the line into it. I will be running all braided lines with NPT fittings, I've just had really bad luck with flexible lines that clamp on, especially near really hot turboes. I'm sure your's works just fine, this isn't a "Your setup sucks thing," I just want to use all braided line. Plus, I get it for really cheap.

mine is not rubber mine is solid metal flex line with compression fittings

this is the only shot i have where you can really see the return line

[Kohburn]

I also want the really low timing RPMs that BB turboes offer. But you guys are right, I shouldn't waste my money on that turbo.

I am going to start having fun with compressor maps tomorrow. I like the T0460e, it ran great on Tim's, but he was also only running to 6400rpm, whereas I want to go to 7150 with it pulling the entire way, so I may look into a tad bigger than that.

did you look at the map i posted at all?

it can put out 20psi at 7000rpm and still be above 75% efficiency

I think if you are going to run that low of boost you are going to want a smaller compressor - it'll spool faster

www.turbofast.com.au recommends a gt25 if you are only going to run 4psi to 8000 rpm - a gt30 to run up to 14psi to 8K, and a gt35 for 16+ up to 8K

of course with their calculator you can have anything from 34psi at 1400rpm to 4psi at 7000rpm with the GT25 turbo using a .63 exhaust housing

[Aaron]

I'm going to of course look into it further, but TimG said it is a little on the small side, and he knows what he is talking about. Installing one and driving it can tell you more than a compressor map. Well, no it can't, but you know what I mean :thumbleft:

I like your return actually, looks good. I will just be going braided becuz it's alsways worked before, its easy, and cheap.

I am sending my chip off to Darth in the next few days, and I'm getting ready to order the MAP sensor as well.

-Do you have any suggestions for a 2-bar MAP sensor?
-How do I figure out what size external wastegate I need?
-How do I figure out what size BOV do I need, and are there any you prefer? I want it noticable, but still relatively quiet. Just a quick pshhh, no turkey calls or any dumb shit like that.

Thanks a lot for your help, and many pics will come!

[Kohburn]

-Do you have any suggestions for a 2-bar MAP sensor?
-How do I figure out what size external wastegate I need?
-How do I figure out what size BOV do I need, and are there any you prefer? I want it noticable, but still relatively quiet. Just a quick pshhh, no turkey calls or any dumb shit like that.

Thanks a lot for your help, and many pics will come!

yeah braided will be much easier - that flex copper was a PITA but I wanted it to be solid

I'm using the map from a 89 or 90TGP - don't see why one from a 3800sc GTP wouldn't work either

just get a small wastegate - i think the standard size is 35mm

for BOV i'd say get something like a turboxs brand one but with no trumpet on the casing

I got one with the single trumpet because i wanted it a little louder but still a simple psht sound

[Aaron]

-Do you have any suggestions for a 2-bar MAP sensor?
-How do I figure out what size external wastegate I need?
-How do I figure out what size BOV do I need, and are there any you prefer? I want it noticable, but still relatively quiet. Just a quick pshhh, no turkey calls or any dumb shit like that.

Thanks a lot for your help, and many pics will come!

yeah braided will be much easier - that flex copper was a PITA but I wanted it to be solid

I'm using the map from a 89 or 90TGP - don't see why one from a 3800sc GTP wouldn't work either

just get a small wastegate - i think the standard size is 35mm

for BOV i'd say get something like a turboxs brand one but with no trumpet on the casing

I got one with the single trumpet because i wanted it a little louder but still a simple psht sound

Ok 35mm sounds good, that is probably what I'll use, but is there any articles on sizing of it, for my future reference?

It's obvious I am not as fluent with turboes as I am with supers. I know how they work and have played with a few before, but am by no means an expert.

I'll check Ebay for some blow off valves, see what I like and such. I'm going to ask Darth for references on a MAP sensor, I'd rather not use a factory unit as it is common knowledge that the factory systems aren't perfect. I'd rather use an aftermarket piece for something this critical.

[Kohburn]

I'm going to ask Darth for references on a MAP sensor, I'd rather not use a factory unit as it is common knowledge that the factory systems aren't perfect. I'd rather use an aftermarket peice for something this critical.

Darth is the one who told me to get it from a TGP :dontknow:

[Aaron]

Hahaha, well I'll see what he ahs to say about it than!

So far the price list:

-Tial 38mm external wastegate (Do I need a .3 or .4? I need to read up on these things for sure...)>$200
-BOV>$100
-Piping, welded, couplers, clamps>$300
-Turbo>$600
-Intercooler>$300
-Chip, 2 bar map>$100

So so far I'm looking at about $1600, but it will probably hit $2000 real fast, which by all means is cheap for a good turbo system. If this works, I'll sell it as a kit. But I am really leary of the chip thing, I have a feeling I'll run into tuning problems fast, becuz it just seems too easy.