Pictures will continue to find their way into slideshows, for now my progress stops right before the cradle comes out. I've got a lot of work lately so I fit in hours wrenching from 8-12PM, this will be a slow build but I've set a goal of 1 month.
http://img89.imageshack.us/slideshow/pl ... 800nc.smil
So far I've got most of my build nailed down, it's just a matter of dropping the money on some items (alum cradle bushings, external crank trigger, 60*v6 DIS/fuel rail/injectors etc.) and then it's a matter of time.
Merlott of Old Europe is the only other Fiero owner I know who's completed one of these swaps... exciting stuff.
More to come.
3500/LX9 Build Thread
Moderators: The Dark Side of Will, Series8217
3500/LX9 Build Thread
Metallic Silver 1986 SE
I mean fuck the slideshow, that shit sucks. Posts pics up here, so I can scroll past the boring/gay pics and see the cool ones. And you can explain them pic by pic.
It's like saying my build thread, then linking to another forum.
It's like saying my build thread, then linking to another forum.
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
Yah man no doubt. Just update it when you got the time, post the pics, explain what we're looking at, and go from there :thumbleft:
Have fun with the double shift, those of us less fortunate get to be unemployed all summer :la:
Have fun with the double shift, those of us less fortunate get to be unemployed all summer :la:
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
-
Series8217
- 1988 Fiero Track Car
- Posts: 5981
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
-
Atilla the Fun
- Posts: 2446
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:36 pm
It's just a step up from the 3100 and 3400. Same basic platform, iron block aluminum heads. Just has updated heads, better intake/exhaust manifolds, etc. I think it also has an oil squirter or 2 IIRC. I want to say it makes like 205hp.
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
-
Series8217
- 1988 Fiero Track Car
- Posts: 5981
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Big displacement (for a V6), 6-bolt mains (or is it 4? I forget now..), structural aluminum oil pan, factory forged rotating assembly, great heads, great intake, fairly light and compact engine...Atilla the Fun wrote:call me ignorant for knowing nothing about the 3.5, but really, what's the big deal? Anyone have info on the improvements? Please, someone, give me a link, I want to know why use it!
-
The Dark Side of Will
- Peer Mediator
- Posts: 15630
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
- Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
- Contact:
Ok, Stella Artois induced informative update (Stella induces many of my actions lately...).
The cradle is nearly ready to drop, I got a couple days off so work is progressing nicely. Brakes lines are tied up, fuel lines are taken care of, trans lines are tucked away, harness is sitting in a disconnected heap on top of the engine.
I am a go for dropping the cradle as soon as I get my hands on an engine skid/dolly.
On an interesting note the drivers side cradle was cut to access the nut at the top of the rear cradle bolt so its has been dropped before. This engine definitely underwent some work in it's lifetime, it's a shame it came into my hands in the shape it was, but I've bought it a new lease on life.
The 3500, I want to keep it stock for now, huge powerband improvements, far better fuel economy, similar weight or lighter than the 2.8 I'd expect, it's only a logical step to take up the 60* ladder. I have no plans to turbo, too much trouble for my liking at the moment, currently I just want to DRIVE! I considered a 60*v6 store camshaft upgrade, you can make like 25 hp easily alone from one of these, pair it with some headwork and headers and you're 75HP over stock easily. These 3500s flow like mofos.
Current hurdles are:
1) Throttle body, it's a 65mm fly by wire, I looked at it today and am
considering just fabbing it to work with the stock Fiero TB linkage, it seems easy enough, watch me eat my words, but this would be a nice solution.
2) Fuel rail and injectors, the rail is returnless and apparently these injectors are the wrong signal to work with older style ECUs, my local accomplice is highly electricity savvy so we may be able to modify the stock system to work, otherwise I trade/buy a 3400 fuel rail and find suitable injectors to match.
3) ECU, I'm just going to run a 7730 with some heavy tuning on the 3.1 code, this has been done in three or four 3500 swaps in different vehicles (Cavaliers and Fiero). I'll be buying one fairly soon from a parts yard and getting some help from the 60* forum members or even possibly Darth to get engine management pinned down.
4) EFI/DIS signal, the crankshaft (reluctor ring?) position sensor has the wrong style of pickup on the crankshaft to work with the 7730, similarly I will be snipping the cam sensor for the SFI because it wont work with the 7730 either. To substitute the stock CPS design I'm buying the TCE external crank trigger from 60* store (wot-tech) to fire the injectors and the DIS, I'll be purchasing the coil packs/ICM from a 3400 or earlier V6.
Alternately my electrically savvy accomplice may suggest some elaborate method of using the stock setup, me and him are convening tomorrow where he'll take a look and we'll brainstorm.
5) Flywheel, as with any 1988 or newer swap you're gonna need a neutral flywheel, these new 60*s are smoooth and internally balanced.
6) Exhaust, as the pictures breifly show the exhaust is somewhat different, I have 3 different 3500 manifolds (thank my seller for including 2 front and 1 rear style) to work with. Two that have very short seperate primaries that collect and exit straight down, and one that is similar to the stock Fiero log but superior in port shape/runner shape etc.
I've debated running the two straight down and collecting them somehow... or more radically (and stupidy) taking the same manifolds and running them down, twisting 90* and routing them straight into the tire wells for a crazy side exit system (it would murder my low end power to have 3-1/2' pipes, I know).
Now I may be leaving something out, updates will come tomorrow after brain storming and cradle dropping is completed.
The cradle is nearly ready to drop, I got a couple days off so work is progressing nicely. Brakes lines are tied up, fuel lines are taken care of, trans lines are tucked away, harness is sitting in a disconnected heap on top of the engine.
I am a go for dropping the cradle as soon as I get my hands on an engine skid/dolly.
On an interesting note the drivers side cradle was cut to access the nut at the top of the rear cradle bolt so its has been dropped before. This engine definitely underwent some work in it's lifetime, it's a shame it came into my hands in the shape it was, but I've bought it a new lease on life.
The 3500, I want to keep it stock for now, huge powerband improvements, far better fuel economy, similar weight or lighter than the 2.8 I'd expect, it's only a logical step to take up the 60* ladder. I have no plans to turbo, too much trouble for my liking at the moment, currently I just want to DRIVE! I considered a 60*v6 store camshaft upgrade, you can make like 25 hp easily alone from one of these, pair it with some headwork and headers and you're 75HP over stock easily. These 3500s flow like mofos.
Current hurdles are:
1) Throttle body, it's a 65mm fly by wire, I looked at it today and am
considering just fabbing it to work with the stock Fiero TB linkage, it seems easy enough, watch me eat my words, but this would be a nice solution.
2) Fuel rail and injectors, the rail is returnless and apparently these injectors are the wrong signal to work with older style ECUs, my local accomplice is highly electricity savvy so we may be able to modify the stock system to work, otherwise I trade/buy a 3400 fuel rail and find suitable injectors to match.
3) ECU, I'm just going to run a 7730 with some heavy tuning on the 3.1 code, this has been done in three or four 3500 swaps in different vehicles (Cavaliers and Fiero). I'll be buying one fairly soon from a parts yard and getting some help from the 60* forum members or even possibly Darth to get engine management pinned down.
4) EFI/DIS signal, the crankshaft (reluctor ring?) position sensor has the wrong style of pickup on the crankshaft to work with the 7730, similarly I will be snipping the cam sensor for the SFI because it wont work with the 7730 either. To substitute the stock CPS design I'm buying the TCE external crank trigger from 60* store (wot-tech) to fire the injectors and the DIS, I'll be purchasing the coil packs/ICM from a 3400 or earlier V6.
Alternately my electrically savvy accomplice may suggest some elaborate method of using the stock setup, me and him are convening tomorrow where he'll take a look and we'll brainstorm.
5) Flywheel, as with any 1988 or newer swap you're gonna need a neutral flywheel, these new 60*s are smoooth and internally balanced.
6) Exhaust, as the pictures breifly show the exhaust is somewhat different, I have 3 different 3500 manifolds (thank my seller for including 2 front and 1 rear style) to work with. Two that have very short seperate primaries that collect and exit straight down, and one that is similar to the stock Fiero log but superior in port shape/runner shape etc.
I've debated running the two straight down and collecting them somehow... or more radically (and stupidy) taking the same manifolds and running them down, twisting 90* and routing them straight into the tire wells for a crazy side exit system (it would murder my low end power to have 3-1/2' pipes, I know).
Now I may be leaving something out, updates will come tomorrow after brain storming and cradle dropping is completed.
Metallic Silver 1986 SE
Also, there is a tastey beefy steel crank in the larger car applications (the SUV/van 3500s) that is apparently bulletproof according to those that have inspected it, and yes, oil squirters on the pistons that need them the most, 5 and 6 I think.
The other features associated with aluminum head engines are there as well, DIS, SFI (for those that want to go the full 9 yards), full roller cam/valvetrain, and awesome flow numbers.
If a 3400 can make 358WHP on a dyno at 10PSI, I cringe with excitment to think what the 3500 is capable of, it's been pushed to 273WHP in a Cavalier naturally aspirated.
I'll live with stock, it'll be plenty over a 2.8 for the time being. Plus with gas I'd hate hate hate hate hate to pay premium.
The other features associated with aluminum head engines are there as well, DIS, SFI (for those that want to go the full 9 yards), full roller cam/valvetrain, and awesome flow numbers.
If a 3400 can make 358WHP on a dyno at 10PSI, I cringe with excitment to think what the 3500 is capable of, it's been pushed to 273WHP in a Cavalier naturally aspirated.
I'll live with stock, it'll be plenty over a 2.8 for the time being. Plus with gas I'd hate hate hate hate hate to pay premium.
Metallic Silver 1986 SE
-
The Dark Side of Will
- Peer Mediator
- Posts: 15630
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
- Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
- Contact:
I actually think a high compression N/A motor built specifically for premium will yield a lower fuel cost per mile than a low compression engine built for regular, considering current gas prices and the split between premium and regular.nfswift wrote:I'll live with stock, it'll be plenty over a 2.8 for the time being. Plus with gas I'd hate hate hate hate hate to pay premium.
http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=107842
You wanted pictures:
I conjured a skid today with a skill saw and random wood from that back yard as not having one was impeding my progress =P
Brakes tied up and jacked up the back a little bit. If you look carefully in the top right you can see the frame cut where the rear cradle mount nut is exposed.
Jacked it up a few inches at a time, repositioned jack stands, and checked the blocks every time, safety first!
Ready to come out.
Rear view ready to remove the engine, it's high enough to see the valve covers at this point.
Pop! Way easier than expected, bent my clutch hard line a bit coming out cause I wasn't paying attention...
Fully removed and ready to pluck off the cradle, 3500 goodness ready to assume it's place.
Mucky big nasty welds on front manifold... maybe this was the reason the cradle was out before??
Obligatory engine bay pose!
Fini. More later.
I conjured a skid today with a skill saw and random wood from that back yard as not having one was impeding my progress =P
Brakes tied up and jacked up the back a little bit. If you look carefully in the top right you can see the frame cut where the rear cradle mount nut is exposed.
Jacked it up a few inches at a time, repositioned jack stands, and checked the blocks every time, safety first!
Ready to come out.
Rear view ready to remove the engine, it's high enough to see the valve covers at this point.
Pop! Way easier than expected, bent my clutch hard line a bit coming out cause I wasn't paying attention...
Fully removed and ready to pluck off the cradle, 3500 goodness ready to assume it's place.
Mucky big nasty welds on front manifold... maybe this was the reason the cradle was out before??
Obligatory engine bay pose!
Fini. More later.
Metallic Silver 1986 SE
-
SappySE107
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:13 am
-
Series8217
- 1988 Fiero Track Car
- Posts: 5981
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
No more cross bolted mains? Any sort of main girdle?SappySE107 wrote:The LX9 has 2 bolt mains. Cylinders 5/6 have the oil squirter. Most came with the forged steel crank, like my 05 malibu motor. Powdered metal connecting rods and hypereutectic pistons, skirt coated. Velocity, flow, air/fuel mixture routing is improved and the combustion chamber is fully deshrouded. 9.8:1 compression.
Is there still a structural oil pan?
-
SappySE107
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:13 am
-
Atilla the Fun
- Posts: 2446
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:36 pm