Power steering

Dryfter_09_19 · Post by **Dryfter_09_19** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:16 pm

your no fun :bootyshake:

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:32 pm

Sounds like a free car to me

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:41 pm

can't beat fee ninety nine.

teamlseep13 · Post by **teamlseep13** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:10 am

bryson wrote:I think you guys misinterpreted part of my post. I don't think the steering in the Fiero is too difficult at all -- I think that the steering rack is too slow. I autocross a lot. If I can go from lock to lock quicker by way of a quicker rack and less effort, I can't see any reason not to want a power steering rack.

Would I want a power steering rack in my car right now, with the same steering speed? Of course not. I would, however, want one if I could get a quicker rack along with it.

Ok, so the ratio is too slow. Power steering isn't about rack ratio at all. It just helps move the rack along without as much effort. If you want a faster rack ratio, buy a rack with a faster ratio. Its gonna be cheaper than trying to convert or modify a power steering rack thats quicker to the Fiero.

Now since you autocross, you probably have large front tires, and need the quickest possible steering as well. Now it's a compromise, as is everything in engineering.
-Smaller tires to reduce steering effort, which may make you give up some traction for a more easier steered car, and you won't have the weight of a power rack or any of its above mentioned disadvantages.
OR
-Keep the fat fronts, find a way to do power steering and quicken your ratio. It may add weight and complexity, but if reducing the steering effort for you is worth that, then go for it. If it works well, tell us about it.

I personally would find a manual rack with a quicker ratio, either from a junkyard from some other car, or my choice, tap the stock car racing industry. Getting a quick manual rack from them is easy, and probably the same or even less than the power steering idea. If the quicker ratio doesn't satisfy you, and you play with scrub radius and castor trail and can't get the effort down, then I guess power is the way to go.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:26 am

teamlseep13 wrote:If you want a faster rack ratio, buy a rack with a faster ratio. Its gonna be cheaper than trying to convert or modify a power steering rack thats quicker to the Fiero.

I personally would find a manual rack with a quicker ratio, either from a junkyard from some other car, or my choice, tap the stock car racing industry.

See, if it were that easy, it would be done more often...
Fabbing mounts for a generic rack from a stock car is going to be about as much fabrication as fabbing mounts for a power rack from something else.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:31 pm

teamlseep13 wrote:Ok, so the ratio is too slow. Power steering isn't about rack ratio at all. It just helps move the rack along without as much effort.

OR it helps move the rack along FASTER WITH THE SAME EFFORT.

If you want a faster rack ratio, buy a rack with a faster ratio. Its gonna be cheaper than trying to convert or modify a power steering rack thats quicker to the Fiero.

Cool, what rack?

...

rockcrawl · Post by **rockcrawl** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:03 pm

I have a Fiero here that had a power steering conversion done many years ago when the kits were still available. I like it. I don't think I'd go through the trouble and expense to do it to any of my cars unless it was a special case like 245s and crazy offset on the front of a replica car (been there, wanted it then). In any case, for all those who say you will loose road feel or sensitivity or whatever, when's the last time you drove a Fiero with power steering? Never?, then :stfu:

Worth it? No
Nice to have? Yes!

teamlseep13 · Post by **teamlseep13** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:50 am

For the faster rack....I haven't researched junkyard apps, I am just getting a woodward gx manual rack. Now its about $350, and that might scare some people away, but then you get what ya pay for. Its totally adj. for rack ratio, light, and quality.

I think fabbing mounts for it, at least for someone who can weld, is a snap. But if ya don't weld, then it would suck. Find a welder friend;)

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:48 pm

Im not sure what the ratio on the Fiero rack is. I think its 3 lock to lock. I saw in Road and Track this morning that the Audi A4 has a 2.5 ratio rack with electric assist. I dont know if its worth checking out though. It would probably be a bit pricy.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:31 pm

teamlseep13 wrote:For the faster rack....I haven't researched junkyard apps, I am just getting a woodward gx manual rack. Now its about $350, and that might scare some people away, but then you get what ya pay for. Its totally adj. for rack ratio, light, and quality.

I think fabbing mounts for it, at least for someone who can weld, is a snap. But if ya don't weld, then it would suck. Find a welder friend;)

Please take lots of pics and put together a build up thread.
Do you know how much the woodward rack weighs compared to the Fiero rack?

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:41 pm

OK, this is probably an ignorant question, but with all this talk about rack interchange-ability, isn't there some limitation as far as dimensions? I mean, you can't just take any rack that you think steers good, weld some mounting tabs on it and call it a day, can you?

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:43 pm

stimpy wrote:OK, this is probably an ignorant question, but with all this talk about rack interchange-ability, isn't there some limitation as far as dimensions? I mean, you can't just take any rack that you think steers good, weld some mounting tabs on it and call it a day, can you?

right - the distance between the inner tie rod pivots is pretty crucial to front end bumpstear

(or more accurately the length of the tire rod)

teamlseep13 · Post by **teamlseep13** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:02 pm

I will definatley post a build thread with lots of pics, just finished taking pics of the Goodridge SS brake lines I installed last night, should be going up soon.

And of corse, you can't just swap any rack and call it a day. Tie rod length and many other dimensions are a large factor. I have a suspension analyzer, so before I do anything I run it through it first, and then test and tune after its all mounted.

Woodward rack weight.....don't know, but I will weight when I do the install.
I just checked their site, $415 for the base manual rack, any ratio you want. You can even get a magnesium housing for the GX type to make it lighter. And if you REALLY want power steering, they can be converted at a later time.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:40 pm

Sweet MFG made the fast racks for the original pace car. Don't know what the ratio was, but it was significantly faster than stock and fit in the factory housing. That's probably what I'll do when I get around to it... I've already spoken with them and they no longer have the prints for the original, but we know it's been done, so it should not be hard to do again.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:59 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Sweet MFG made the fast racks for the original pace car. Don't know what the ratio was, but it was significantly faster than stock and fit in the factory housing. That's probably what I'll do when I get around to it... I've already spoken with them and they no longer have the prints for the original, but we know it's been done, so it should not be hard to do again.

So we should be able to get custom ratio racks that drop right into a Fiero? Once someone draws up some new blueprints.

Too bad that was for a pre-88..

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:05 pm

Kohburn wrote:
stimpy wrote:OK, this is probably an ignorant question, but with all this talk about rack interchange-ability, isn't there some limitation as far as dimensions? I mean, you can't just take any rack that you think steers good, weld some mounting tabs on it and call it a day, can you?
right - the distance between the inner tie rod pivots is pretty crucial to front end bumpstear

(or more accurately the length of the tire rod)

The vertical location of the rack is more important than the length... but the length is still important.

BigRedDeckSpoiler · Post by **BigRedDeckSpoiler** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:55 am

Kohburn wrote:
stimpy wrote:OK, this is probably an ignorant question, but with all this talk about rack interchange-ability, isn't there some limitation as far as dimensions? I mean, you can't just take any rack that you think steers good, weld some mounting tabs on it and call it a day, can you?
right - the distance between the inner tie rod pivots is pretty crucial to front end bumpstear

(or more accurately the length of the tire rod)

So, is it better for the center link of the rack to be shorter, with longer tie rod ends? Is there any formula to figure it out? (Obviously, the rack should be centered, making the rod ends about the same length, side to side.)

In a perfect world, if the car has been lowered by using shorter springs, should the rack be raised to keep the relationship the same?
Not that many people are actually going to bother.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:49 am

BigRedDeckSpoiler wrote:
Kohburn wrote:
stimpy wrote:OK, this is probably an ignorant question, but with all this talk about rack interchange-ability, isn't there some limitation as far as dimensions? I mean, you can't just take any rack that you think steers good, weld some mounting tabs on it and call it a day, can you?
right - the distance between the inner tie rod pivots is pretty crucial to front end bumpstear

(or more accurately the length of the tire rod)
So, is it better for the center link of the rack to be shorter, with longer tie rod ends? Is there any formula to figure it out? (Obviously, the rack should be centered, making the rod ends about the same length, side to side.)

In a perfect world, if the car has been lowered by using shorter springs, should the rack be raised to keep the relationship the same?
Not that many people are actually going to bother.

that racks position needs to be relative to the a-arms, not ride height..
in the perfect world the tie rod would be in the same plane as the lower control arm.. (even better than that would be a hydraulic "rack" that had a cylinder attached ot the a-arm, witht he tie rod end in plane with the arm.. that would make for zero bump stear.