Lonzo's 88 Coupe 3.4 DOHC build thread

MstangsBware · Post by **MstangsBware** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:39 am

Fastback86 wrote:For that matter, how many miles are on that fuel pump? I know people who put 50k miles a year on their cars. Could be pretty damn worn out after 20+ years.

It doesn't matter--It starts the car and it will run off an Ol' wore out pump so that is all that matters. I mean who the hell does an engine swap and leaves a 20 year old pump in the tank?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:41 am

Who the hell does an engine swap and puts in a 20 year old engine? Oh, this one only has 17 years. Lonzo, in 3 years your entire power train will be scrap metal. It's a good thing you didn't choose to take your car to this dumbshit. You'd be in 10 grand.

MstangsBware · Post by **MstangsBware** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:46 am

Aaron wrote:.

It will be no cheaper or easier for me to do the fuel pump now, than it would be for him to have it done when it does fail. So why do it now?

WRONG--Shop rates are at a little over $100 a hour at this time. They charge 2-3 hours for a fuel pump swap then add in the overpriced fuel pump they are going to use and then shop material used. So you spending an hour plus a $100 to do it now and that not be a problem that leaves him stuck on the side of the road in the future V/S him being stranded on the side of the road, paying for a tow truck to tow the car to a shop, paying the shop $500 to swap in a new fuel pump and at the same time tell him there is this and that also wrong with the car that needs fixed.

Cliff notes:

$100 and an hour of Arrons time V/S Stranded w/ a $500 trip to the shop

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:54 am

He's going to be stranded in 3 years anyway, because every engine-related part fails at 20 years.

They charge 2-3 hours to do a fuel pump because it takes 2-3 hours. It isn't going to magically take me less time. I have to do everything they do.

If I was to write him an email tonight telling him everything wrong with the car, he would need a $5,000 check. It's a fucking Fiero. The fuel pump works. I have absolutely no reason to believe the fuel pump is about to fail, or will not be capable of fueling a motor that hundreds of engineers decided it was fully capable of fueling.

MstangsBware · Post by **MstangsBware** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:55 am

Aaron wrote:Who the hell does an engine swap and puts in a 20 year old engine? Oh, this one only has 17 years. Lonzo, in 3 years your entire power train will be scrap metal. It's a good thing you didn't choose to take your car to this dumbshit. You'd be in 10 grand.

Well if you want to get down to it--the engine you are putting in would be better off as scrap metal. Not worth much more than that as it sits being the TURD it is.

The 3800SC swap I am doing now for a guy is costing him $4300. Yes that is more than what you are charging but my time is worth more than yours so my labor is higher. I charged $2800 in parts al oan for the swap but that isn't skimping on anythings like say a new fuel pump. That also includes a 34K motor/trans with all acc. Let just say you get what you pay for and the guy that is getting the swap is not getting an corners cut. Not to mention in stock form his swap will still be faster then the TURD you are building.

MstangsBware · Post by **MstangsBware** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:57 am

Aaron wrote:He's going to be stranded in 3 years anyway, because every engine-related part fails at 20 years.

They charge 2-3 hours to do a fuel pump because it takes 2-3 hours. It isn't going to magically take me less time. I have to do everything they do.

It takes 1.5 hour to swap out a fuel pump from start to finish not 2-3 hours. And this is doing it with out a lift and by using jacks and stands.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:58 am

Ok V8Archie...

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:25 am

the only opinion that matters is Lonzos. If it were my swap I'd do the fuel pump, but that dosent mean it would have to be done. I did a FP on my DD because it had 174k miles on it. It was still making plenty of pressure.

The Dark Side of Will · Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:43 am

The unfortunate thing about fuel pumps is that they fail without much warning.

When my dad and I got his Suburban running with a Caddy 500 + EFI, he used an out-of-tank pump from a Datsun. The pump failed within about 1500 miles. The first warning it gave was a check engine light as I was about to touch triple digit speeds in a top speed run. We didn't do 2+2 at the time, but in a few hundred more miles, it would barely push enough fuel to hold 55. Of course that's a good bit of warning.

Most of the Fiero fuel pump failures I've seen have been catastrophic... that is they give no warning and are complete failures. The pump just doesn't turn one morning... or one evening... and leaves you wherever you are. That's probably why there's so much controversy about it.

It's Lonzo's car, though. Maybe he's comfy changing a fuel pump, but not with an engine swap. Maybe he had a couple grand in his pocket and didn't want to F#$% with doing it himself. I don't know... but it's his choice.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:36 pm

I just got back from the first drive. Everything went well. By the miracle of God himself, the fuel pump worked, the entire time. I was fucking blown away.

I adjusted the e-brake, it works perfect. The clutch worked great, it was actually much better than on my car (Same clutch, but I've got an aluminum flywheel). It was smooth and predictable. I bled the brakes, but didn't do good enough apparently, as the brake pedal goes almost to the floor. But I'll get that worked out. Transmission shifts good. The engine feels good, it's loud, but sounds great. Power was exactly as I expected, and power delivery was really smooth. No SES light either, which is really good. I got something in the engine bay really hot, as it was smoking pretty bad. It's not a big deal though, I'll get that taken care of tonight. It was either the wiring harness covering, or the heater line. But the wiring still works great, as did the heater, and I didn't lose any water, so it didn't do any damage. Overall, no real problems to be concerned over, I forgot how much midrange torque these things have when they aren't lagged by the turbo.

MstangsBware · Post by **MstangsBware** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:57 pm

Aaron wrote:I just got back from the first drive. Everything went well. By the miracle of God himself, the fuel pump worked, the entire time. I was fucking blown away.

I adjusted the e-brake, it works perfect. The clutch worked great, it was actually much better than on my car (Same clutch, but I've got an aluminum flywheel). It was smooth and predictable. I bled the brakes, but didn't do good enough apparently, as the brake pedal goes almost to the floor. But I'll get that worked out. Transmission shifts good. The engine feels good, it's loud, but sounds great. Power was exactly as I expected, and power delivery was really smooth. No SES light either, which is really good. I got something in the engine bay really hot, as it was smoking pretty bad. It's not a big deal though, I'll get that taken care of tonight. It was either the wiring harness covering, or the heater line. But the wiring still works great, as did the heater, and I didn't lose any water, so it didn't do any damage. Overall, no real problems to be concerned over, I forgot how much midrange torque these things have when they aren't lagged by the turbo.

A/C blow COLD??????

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:13 pm

No, and it will be some time before it does.

I still need the A/C lines, and the pressure sensor from the j/y. I've got all of the wiring ready for it though. So it should just be a matter of getting the lines in, pressure sensor welded on, and a charge.

MstangsBware · Post by **MstangsBware** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:49 pm

Forgot I had the old pump still from the 3800 swap I am doing--You want to buy it for a spare? The car was still running that it came out of so it is still good. I will let it go cheap!!!

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:38 pm

I've got a couple spares, I'll toss them in with his swap if he wants.

The alternator went out about a week ago. On the bench, it'd charge a bit low, about 13v. But in the car, nothing. While it was on the bench getting run, I lightly tapped it with a wench to simulate the vibrations of the engine, especially with the loud exhaust. Sure enough, with every light tap, voltage dropped off completely. So I had a reputable shop in town rebuild it, and now it's working great.

On the drive home, I got on it getting off the highway. Runs good. I come up to the stoplight, and it dies out on me. No big deal, put it in 3rd, let out the clutch, and it won't restart. WTF? Stopped at the light, I flip the key off for a minute, then turn the key on. No fuel pump. I have a friend tow me back to my house, and I check the relay and wiring. All good. I try jumping the FP through the ALDL connector, nothing. I start writing a quite embarrassing post here about how the FP failed. I get under the car to change it out, and go to undo the 3-pin connector. Well, that's weird, it's already disconnected for me. I'm not sue how it came undone, but I reconnected it, and FP works perfect.

His gauges are all off, I think someone's had the needles off before. At idle I've got 60psi, just shy of 18v, and fully warmed up is 1/4 the gauge. But they all work properly, enough to know if something is wrong at least. The fuel gauge is the only one way off. I'm not even sure if it works. I'm going to keep an eye on it though, try and see. The tach also seems like it's reading low. It idles perfect at 800 or so, but when I run it out, I can feel the motor stop dropping power north of an indicated 6k, and it shouldn't. I'm going to hook the scanner up and compare those. The speedo also seems to run a bit high, just doesn't feel like I'm doing 45 when it says I am.

This motor runs perfect. It's much smoother than mine, and has noticeably more midrange power at low-mid throttle. I just can't get over how smooth it is. Every throttle change, no matter what RPM, gear, anything, is done perfectly. My car is good, but just not this good. It's nice to drive. Lonzo will love it, if he ever gets back to me. Seems he fell off the earth a couple weeks ago. I hope he's alright!

Xanth · Post by **Xanth** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:46 pm

I have an article on making the Tachometer adjustable should you decide to do it, same on correcting the fuel sending unit.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:18 pm

Xanth wrote:I have an article on making the Tachometer adjustable should you decide to do it, same on correcting the fuel sending unit.

I've seen those, and they, like every other article you have, are great.

Unfortunately, I have to draw the line somewhere. And I wasn't hired to fix every problem the car has, he'd have to double the check to make that happen, because it is after all a Fiero. I was hired to do the engine swap. And while I will, and have, fixed certain things along the way, if I'm not dropping the tank or tearing apart the dash already, then it'd be too much work to do so, ya know? It'd be like you taking your car in for an oil change, and them giving you a $500 bill for replacing the steering rack. Or you taking your car in for an oil change, and asking if that includes a new oil pump. So if he wants me to fix all of the little things, I will, but I can't include it with the swap.

Xanth · Post by **Xanth** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:00 pm

Everything you've done looks like it has come out well, if nothing else maybe he'd be interested in paying a bit more later on for you to do some other work.

Or he could even do it himself if he's so inclined, with the engine swap done for him already.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:05 pm

Xanth wrote:Everything you've done looks like it has come out well, if nothing else maybe he'd be interested in paying a bit more later on for you to do some other work.

Or he could even do it himself if he's so inclined, with the engine swap done for him already.

Thanks, and that was my thinking too. I'll get the car to where it's reliable, and do my end of the bargain to the best I can, while staying on budget. He'll be happy with it I'm sure, it runs too damn good.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:09 pm

The car is pretty much finished as far as I am concerned. It's running perfect, without any bugs really. The only thing not done is the A/C lines, and that's because I haven't been able to find any. Lonzo supposedly had them on the way, but I'm not sure.

Here are the pictures as it sits. You can see the dogbone as well. It is 3/4" solid aluminum. I used the maroon car's dogbone, cut it int he middle, and added a section in between since it is longer. Although it isn't as pretty, strong, or stiff as mine, it weighs less, was much cheaper, and fills the need on this particular car just fine. You can also see the 3" fenderwell intake.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:07 am

That dogbone is going to bend like a wet noodle.

Looks okay otherwise. :thumbleft: