The evils of Debt

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://www.thefinanceforums.com/john-co ... h-161.html

Found that while looking for info on the John Commuta "Transforming Debt into Wealth" program I keep hearing about every freaking day on the radio.

The big idea is discipline and common sense and is available for free elsewhere.

There are also a lot of references to various sources of sound financial advice, most of which I reproduce below, without attiribution (this is the internet, after all):

"Rich Dad, Poor Dad", by Robert Kiasaki, and another is "Think and Grow Rich" by Napolian Hill.

"The Total Money Makeover" by Dave Ramsey. He offers a Christian-based debt snowball approach

By the way, has anyone heard of the movie THE SECRET? It’s pretty popular.

i have found a great program by mary hunt... " the official cheapskate"..etc. books.

It's called a money merge account. From what I have heard, the program does cost about $3k to start, but I think it can be paid over time. I have a few friends that are doing it, and it is working for them. (playing the interest float game with HELOC money to pay mortgage).

so far, it's a lot of common sense. But I can see how some people would not have the right thought process about spending, assests and liabilities. There are a couple helpful hints about insurance options and views on a consumer society. He has the same views on assets vs liabilities as Kiyosaki.

I also recommend Larry Winget's You're Broke Because You Want To Be.

[The Dark Side of Will]

So I had a couple of "lean years" between getting out of the Navy and finding a job in which I was a good fit. I have debt from this period of time. In retrospect accumulating that was incredibly stupid and I could have gone about that part of my life MUCH better...

But that's how we learn, right?

It seems pretty common sense to me that lenders own debtors, and that priority number one for a debtor should be getting out of debt. Heck, back in the day, they'd put people in prison for not paying their debts.

I'll be flat and will have paid off over $18,000 by the middle of next year. Through this experience, I've formulated some ideas about money... which are probably published EVERYWHERE... but allow me my moment, as I haven't read all those other peoples' ideas yet.

"Nobody stays broke"; "Debt begets debt, wealth begets wealth"; "The rich become and stay rich by buying things that go up in value".

All of these speak to the fundamental issue of prioritizing money. Nobody stays broke (broke = $0 net worth) because either they will have the discipline to put money away, or they'll go into debt because they don't. Debt begets debt through interest and the undisciplined attitude that got the person into debt in the first place. Wealth begets wealth through return on wise investments made under the auspices of the disciplined attitude. That the rich stay rich by buying things that go up in value is just and extension of "wealth begets wealth". People seem to think that the rich can waste money... They didn't get rich by wasting money, and they won't stay rich if they do. The rich must be incredibly careful with their money in order to stay rich. This is easy for the ones who became rich, as it's what they've been doing all along.

That's my .02 for the night.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I guess that's not quite my .02 for the night because I forgot one of the huge points I wanted to make.

I've been saying for a while now that the problems the big three automakers are having with pension and health care liabilities NOW is just a sneak peak at the problems the federal government will have in a few years with SS and Medicare liabilities.

The SAME is true of the current credit crisis. Our entire financial system is based on debt, not wealth. Remember what I said above about debt begetting debt? The federal government has been in that spiral for decades and the exponential effect is hitting now. The current crises with debt and credit are just sneak peaks of the debt and credit crisis the federal government will have shortly after the reality of SS and Medicare liabilities sink in.

Of course we can create the illusion of prosperity through debt, but that's all it is... an illusion. We're spending money that we haven't earned yet and compromising our future earnings to do it.

The nature of the federal reserve and the fractional reserve banking system is truly terrifying.

No wonder Islam calls charging compound interest usury.

[EBSB52]

I guess that's not quite my .02 for the night because I forgot one of the huge points I wanted to make.

I've been saying for a while now that the problems the big three automakers are having with pension and health care liabilities NOW is just a sneak peak at the problems the federal government will have in a few years with SS and Medicare liabilities.

The SAME is true of the current credit crisis. Our entire financial system is based on debt, not wealth. Remember what I said above about debt begetting debt? The federal government has been in that spiral for decades and the exponential effect is hitting now. The current crises with debt and credit are just sneak peaks of the debt and credit crisis the federal government will have shortly after the reality of SS and Medicare liabilities sink in.

Of course we can create the illusion of prosperity through debt, but that's all it is... an illusion. We're spending money that we haven't earned yet and compromising our future earnings to do it.

The nature of the federal reserve and the fractional reserve banking system is truly terrifying.

No wonder Islam calls charging compound interest usury.

ON the healthcare issue, if we went, like the rest of the free world, to a uni care, socialized med system it would help ALL people. One of the biggest issues with employer/employee relations is that of healthcare and retirement healthcare. Ultimately this burries companies as the retirement base gets big enough, kinda like a pyramid scheme. Going to uni-care would relieve a lot of these issues in several elements of society, not to mention general humanity.

But neo-cons will automatically poo-poo the idea before they hear it, that's the way they're wired. Problem-solvers know this is the answer. But before any neo-cons dismiss it, explain how countries like Canada and a lot of Western Europe, Australia, etc have found a way to make it work and still maintain better fiscal health that the US, a country that does not have uni-care.

[allWorkNoPlay]

I recommend "The Millionaire Next Door"

Amazon.com Review
How can you join the ranks of America's wealthy (defined as people whose net worth is over one million dollars)? It's easy, say doctors Stanley and Danko, who have spent the last 20 years interviewing members of this elite club: you just have to follow seven simple rules. The first rule is, always live well below your means. The last rule is, choose your occupation wisely. You'll have to buy the book to find out the other five. It's only fair. The authors' conclusions are commonsensical. But, as they point out, their prescription often flies in the face of what we think wealthy people should do. There are no pop stars or athletes in this book, but plenty of wall-board manufacturers--particularly ones who take cheap, infrequent vacations! Stanley and Danko mercilessly show how wealth takes sacrifice, discipline, and hard work, qualities that are positively discouraged by our high-consumption society. "You aren't what you drive," admonish the authors. Somewhere, Benjamin Franklin is smiling. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I've heard of that. That's how I've been trying to live, now that I'm getting back on my feet.

[p8ntman442]

Chalk me up in the over 100k debt column. Not counting the mortgage.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Student debt, while debt, isn't exactly the same as consumer debt.

[p8ntman442]

Right, Consumer debt leaves you with some shit to sell, Studen loans leaves you with a fucking Diploma.

the people who rack up CC debt amaze me. We have like 3k in CC debt that was put into renovating the house we bought. That will be paid off this year with tax returns.

[EBSB52]

Right, Consumer debt leaves you with some shit to sell, Studen loans leaves you with a fucking Diploma.

the people who rack up CC debt amaze me. We have like 3k in CC debt that was put into renovating the house we bought. That will be paid off this year with tax returns.

I agree with the exception of medically generated CC debt and maybe a few others. What a trash of a nation, some of the tax incentives given for meaningless things, yet little for education and healthcare. Hopefully that changes in the netx 4.