Thoughts on this front brake/suspension set-up?

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

Okay, first of all I'm afraid this post might end up sounding like the typical "heey i'm gonna stick a lambo engize in my Fiero despite me not havings money , etc" post.

Anyway, I was thinking something like using these Street Dreams lowering spindles/hubs with a 5x115 bolt pattern ( http://www.streetdreamsbyross.com/dropknuckles.php ), have some 14" rotors (aftermarket 'Vette maybe?) redrilled to match the pattern and have caliper relocation brackets made for CTS-V calipers (4 piston Brembos).

I'm sure I'm missing something completely. Thoughts? Better/more cost effective/efficient solution?

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

I already have the calipers and want to use them on my Fiero. Not only do they work really well, but they look great IMO.

[Atilla the Fun]

Why drop your fiero more than about an inch? You can do that without buying spindles. And by using the spindles you have, there are already kits to go to 13" brakes. If you want to pioneer something, or prove your fabrication skills, go right ahead.

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

By looking at websites (WCF for example) it seems that big brake kits come with the following:
-New hubs (I'm assuming to get rid of the stock rotor/hub combo)
-Redrilled Vette, etc rotors
-Caliper relocation brackets
-2 piston 'Vette calipers
-No drop
-$2200 price tag
Am I missing anything?

I figured with going the way I was thinking I would have:
-New bigger/better(?) hubs using 114.3 bolt pattern allowing a greater selection of wheels ($800)
-Evos are 114.3 bolt pattern so no need to redrill rotors. Evo X front rotors are 13.8" stock and there are plenty of aftermarket 14" VII-IX rotors already out there. ($240 from the dealer for stock Evo X rotors. Cheaper elsewhere. No sure on the 14" aftermarket ones, but Wilwood, Brembo and others make them)
-I already have four extra 4 piston calipers which are better performing/looking than the Vette ones. (Free)
-Would need to have relocation brackets made ($???)

I would think the biggest issue would be having new brackets made to relocate the calipers. As for the drop, it was my understanding that this method was the best for maintaining suspension geometry? True? I'm not sure. But yeah, I think 2" (while being a pain to drive at times) would look really good. Also, as they sit in my garage right now I think my Talon's roof height is as low or lower than the Fiero. Can't have that. Also, I would need to run at minimum an 18" rim to clear the brakes but I already was wanting a 18/19 combo anyway which is where I think the bolt pattern might help out as well.

Like I said, I'm probably really overlooking something here (and making myself look like an idiot in the process), so you're probably right to just go with an existing kit.

[Series8217]

I have a friend with those brakes on his Volvo wagon. Total overkill for any Fiero. They weigh a LOT. Did you weigh the rotors yet? IIRC they are 35 lbs each.
http://www.pbase.com/765ti/suspension_and_brakes

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

Yeah, I figured they're overkill on a Fiero, but I figure I already have them, so... Not to mention, from an aesthetic standpoint, they would look badass. I think they would really help complete the look I'm going for. As for the rotor weight. Not much worse than the existing 11-13" Fiero brake kits. Eventually I could spring for two-piece rotors as both Brembo and Wilwood make them in that bolt pattern.

Any reason this wouldn't work?

[Series8217]

As for the rotor weight. Not much worse than the existing 11-13" Fiero brake kits.

Is this a joke? What existing Fiero brake kits come close to that rotor weight?

C4 12" Corvette rotors weigh 14 lbs. That's less than HALF the weight of the CTS-V/STS-V brakes, and only The C4 rotors are matched well to the braking requirements of a 300+hp Fiero, and add only 4 pounds of unsprung weight to each corner if upgrading from stock 88 Fiero rotors. The -V brakes add over 20 lbs of unsprung weight to each corner.
Viper 13" rotors from the kit that WCF sells weigh 16 lbs if I remember correctly. They are sold with Brembo calipers which I weighed... they are the same weight as stock 88 Fiero calipers, but are stiffer and have 4 pistons. I didn't get to weigh the CTS-V Brembos, but they are much heavier than that.

The CTS-V/STS-V brakes are matched to a 4000 lb car...The rotor mass is there so you can stop from 100+ mph and not fade the brakes. Even a Fiero with 400 hp wouldn't need brakes that big.

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

Oh no. Not the V rotors. I meant the Evo rotors. Quick Google search shows 21 lbs.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Unsprung weight is IMPORTANT. I would go with two piece rotors using aluminum hats if you have the scratch. Wilwood makes good parts in this area. This has the added benefit that you can choose the depth of the hat to simplify your caliper mounting bracket. I don't see any reason why you couldn't use the V calipers. Wilwood dynalites are pretty cheap and probably lighter though.

Throw down for some ZR1 carbon brakes.

The '88 calipers have steel bridges. They're pretty darn stiff. The modulus of aluminum is so much lower than steel that it's really hard to make an alumium structure stiffer than a steel one.

[Series8217]

Oh no. Not the V rotors. I meant the Evo rotors. Quick Google search shows 21 lbs.

Ok, that's not as bad as the V rotors, but still VERY heavy compared to all the other totally adequate brake kits for Fieros. The two piece Wilwood ones are probably acceptable. They should be ~16 lbs or so.
Chris West has a nice set of Wilwood two-pieces on his car, using the Brembo calipers I mentioned earlier. They are 13"x1" IIRC, and I think they weighed in at 16 lbs.

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

I was looking again at the WCF 13" kit with 2 piston calipers and they say on their website that the one piece rotors weigh in at 27 lbs with the optional 2 piece being 10.7 lbs each. Also it looks like 14" 2 piece rotors from Wilwood would come in at about 16 lbs like you guys guessed. I'm having somebody weigh the V calipers for me now. That said, they are the same 4 piston calipers used on later Evos, STis (they just don't have them on all 4 corners) etc.

Do you guys know the weight of the stock components (spindle, hubs, rotors, calipers, etc). That way I can put together a good side-to-side and compare stock v. exsisting aftermarket v. this proposed set-up. Obviously my final decision in wheels could make a lot of this irrelevant, which is another thing to be considered I guess.

Also, I've been looking at pics of Fieros with the Vette calipers and they're really ugly compared to the 4 piston Brembos (off topic, but it's lame when people leave the Corvette lettering on them as well). The looks alone makes me want this to be feasible. I currently have the V, Fiero and my Talon (2 piston 'big brake' calipers) in my garage. So I've been using the pre-photoshop method of looking back and forth to get a visual.

But either way, thanks for the help thus far, guys.

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Archives/Arch ... 34430.html

Somewhere in that thread I've listed weights for stock and aluminum spindles.

A stock fiero has ~100# of unsprung weight per corner. Every pound counts. Don't think that a couple of pounds of weight reduction isn't worth it, because it is.

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Archives/Arch ... 430-5.html

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

Awesome info. I just read through that whole thread pretty thouroughly (took a while ) . I'm really liking those drop spindles/hubs. Thanks a lot, Will, for bringing them to the community. I'll post back when I find out more info and such.

So far I have this-

Stock knuckle/hub: 11 pounds, 5 ounces
Street Dream: 7 pounds, 6 ounces
Net: -3.94 pounds

Stock rotors: ???
Aftermarket 1 piece: ???
Wilwood 2 piece (14"x1.1"): 14.3 lbs (this is without the hat and hardware. I couldn't find those weights)

Stock caliper: ???
4 piston Brembo: ???

Stock wheels:
15 lbs (14" tech)
20 lbs (15" GT lace)
Aftermarket: ???

Tire Weight: ???
Caliper bracket: ???

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

Okay, I've been doing some more research and found this thread (The Punisher is an active participant in it and even apologizes a time or two. Imagine that. ):
http://www.fiero.com/forum/Archives/Arch ... 25990.html
Stock rotor size source: http://www.fiero.com/forum/Archives/Arch ... 34811.html


I've updated my numbers with what was found in this thread.

Stock knuckle/hub: 11 lbs, 5 ounces
Street Dreams: 7 lbs, 6 ounces
Net: -3.94 lbs

Stock rotors (9.625"x.375"): 4.85 lbs
Aftermarket 1 peice: ???
Wilwood 2 peice (14"x1.1"): 14.3 lbs (this is without the hat and hardware. I couldn't find those weights)
Net: +9.45 lbs

Stock caliper: 7.25 lbs
4 piston Brembo: ???
Net: ???

Stock wheels:
15 lbs (14" tech)
20 lbs (15" GT lace)
Aftermarket: ???
Net: ???

Tire Weight-
215/60/14: 23 lbs
205/40/18: 20 lbs
Net: -3 lbs

Stock Caliper bracket: .4 lbs
Custom Caliper Bracket: ???

I do realize that these weights are from different sources and different methods that may involve inaccurate scales, but they're the best I can do for now Also, I still feel like I'm coming off like the typical "I wanna do this..." Fiero dreamer who won't actually do anything.

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

I went ahead and updated the tire weights going off of the listed specs on tire rack. Anybody know of a better place for accurate weight? I used a BFGoodrich Radial T/A for the 14" tire and Michelin PS2s (me want) for the 18" being that there was not the same tire available in both sizes.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Stock knuckle/hub: 11 lbs, 5 ounces
Stock rotors (9.625"x.375"): 11.35 lbs

There's overlap between these two figures. The stock rotor/hubs are one piece. My weight figure for the knuckle/hub had the rotor parted off the hub. I would guess that the weight removed was about half the weight of the hub... maybe 6 lbs or so. The weight of the stock knuckle + hub/rotor would be in the 17-18 lbs range.

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

Stock knuckle/hub: 11 lbs, 5 ounces
Stock rotors (9.625"x.375"): 11.35 lbs

There's overlap between these two figures. The stock rotor/hubs are one peice. My weight figure for the knuckle/hub had the rotor parted off the hub. I would guess that the weight removed was about half the weight of the hub... maybe 6 lbs or so. The weight of the stock knuckle + hub/rotor would be in the 17-18 lbs range.

True. For some reason I thought I had accounted for that. I'll update my figures in the last post. Sluppy in that other thread estimated about the same as you based off of some hubs he used to sell. So we'll go with 11.35-6.5= 4.85 for the actual rotor weight.

[Series8217]

I was looking again at the WCF 13" kit with 2 piston calipers and they say on their website that the one peice rotors weigh in at 27 lbs with the optional 2 peice being 10.7 lbs each.

Those must be the 13" rotors that are an inch thick or more. The Dodge Viper ones are the same thickness as 88 Fiero rotors (close to 0.8" I think).

Do you guys know the weight of the stock components (spindle, hubs, rotors, calipers, etc). That way I can put together a good side-to-side and compare stock v. exsisting aftermarket v. this proposed set-up. Obviously my final decision in wheels could make a lot of this irrelevant, which is another thing to be considered I guess.

88 Fiero rotors weigh 10 lbs each.
I think the calipers were 5 or 6 lbs but I can't remember.

Also, I've been looking at pics of Fieros with the Vette calipers and they're really ugly compared to the 4 piston Brembos (off topic, but it's lame when people leave the Corvette lettering on them as well). The looks alone makes me want this to be feasible. I currently have the V, Fiero and my Talon (2 piston 'big brake' calipers) in my garage. So I've been using the pre-photoshop method of looking back and forth to get a visual.

Why is it lame that people leave the Corvette lettering on them? They're Corvette calipers! It's not like putting Corvette stickers on Fiero calipers . Either way, they are pretty damn ugly, and I too will avoid them because of that fact.

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

I was looking again at the WCF 13" kit with 2 piston calipers and they say on their website that the one peice rotors weigh in at 27 lbs with the optional 2 peice being 10.7 lbs each.

Those must be the 13" rotors that are an inch thick or more. The Dodge Viper ones are the same thickness as 88 Fiero rotors (close to 0.8" I think).

I got those numbers right off of their Viper/Vette brake page: http://www.westcoastfiero.com/brakes/brakes_13.html

Do you guys know the weight of the stock components (spindle, hubs, rotors, calipers, etc). That way I can put together a good side-to-side and compare stock v. exsisting aftermarket v. this proposed set-up. Obviously my final decision in wheels could make a lot of this irrelevant, which is another thing to be considered I guess.

88 Fiero rotors weigh 10 lbs each.
I think the calipers were 5 or 6 lbs but I can't remember.

That about matches up with the other data I found.

Also, I've been looking at pics of Fieros with the Vette calipers and they're really ugly compared to the 4 piston Brembos (off topic, but it's lame when people leave the Corvette lettering on them as well). The looks alone makes me want this to be feasible. I currently have the V, Fiero and my Talon (2 piston 'big brake' calipers) in my garage. So I've been using the pre-photoshop method of looking back and forth to get a visual.

Why is it lame that people leave the Corvette lettering on them? They're Corvette calipers! It's not like putting Corvette stickers on Fiero calipers . Either way, they are pretty damn ugly, and I too will avoid them because of that fact.

Because the car they're going on isn't a Corvette. I think the same about when people swap in LS1s and leave the Vette FRCs on and unmodded.