killing dogs...

[Shaun41178(2)]

speaking of killing dogs.... I killed your mom last night

[EBSB52]

speaking of killing dogs.... I killed your mom last night

And then you spanked someone's monkey.

[Shaun41178(2)]

yea I spanked your wifes monkey. Then I smoked some pot just like your hero Bill Clinton.

[EBSB52]

yea I spanked your wifes monkey. Then I smoked some pot just like your hero Bill Clinton.

I don't have a wife, you must have spanked your mom's monkey. And you're constantly smoking dope, so that's a moot point.

[Shaun41178(2)]

but I am not inhaling so its cool right?

[EBSB52]

but I am not inhaling so its cool right?

Amazing that moronic neo-cons would insist on bringing things to politics. I mean, is it really an issue you want to discuss? OK, we'll explore all of the irrelevant personal issues of GHW and Clinton:

- Clinton

- loved fat chicks
- Got head in the White House
- Lied about it
- Smoked dope, inhaled / didn't inhale; does it matter?
- Has a nagging wretch of a wife
- Avoided Viet Nam for school, no military service
- Add your own


- Bush

- 1st person elected as a criminal
- 1st president with military service to not voluntarily post his DD214
- Former drunk
- Has 2 drunks as daughters
- semi-literate, can't or won't pronounce simple words correctly
- Skated out of Viet Nam while playing here and transferred to the guard, then started his political career while OWOL
- Add your own


OK, now on to important issues, such as economic performance and things Repukes view as unimportant:

- Clinton

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 7%, left 4%
- DEFICIT: Inherited -290B, left a +236B surplus
- DEBT: Inherited 12 straight years of a 250B/yr increase, left a 33B increase his last year, every year the increase lowered
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 3500, left 9800
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.28, left 1.55
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world started to like us again during Clinton's presidency


- Bush

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 4%, left 7.6%
- DEFICIT: Inherited a +236B surplus, left a 455B deficit
- DEBT: Inherited 33B increase, left probably what's going to amount to a trillion dollar debt, maybe more. Hard to figure with the 750B for the banks, the stimulus, all of the war funding, easily at least 1 trillion dollars.
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 9800, left 7900
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.55, left 1.22, but the USD was below the Canadian dollar a year ago, the stock market crash gave the USD a huge bump, as people pulled $$$ out of thr market and stuck it in bonds.
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world hates us now

So, play with the idiotic rhetoric, but when you're done, let's mince numbers and then I can read you make excuses. Name 1 indicator that is higher than when Bush took office. Please, keep rhetoric and things like pride and decency and shit like that out, as you see this goes both ways and is subjective and irrelevant to the success of a nation.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Jimmy carter president during the seige on the embassy in Iran. Hostages were taken. Carter couldnt' get them released.

Reagen gets elected and hostages freed.

hmmm......

Where the hell were the Dems and why couldn't they free the hostages?

The world hates us now? Many countries have always hated us and its not because of Bush 2 taking office. Its well before that. Hell dude how many times did Osama attack the US while CLinton was in office? Parts of the world have always hated us. That will never change no matter who is president.

You are just as nutty as Toddster except you two are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

[EBSB52]

Jimmy carter president during the seige on the embassy in Iran. Hostages were taken. Carter couldnt' get them released.

.

Gee, here I thought we were talking Clinton and GHW, I guess you decided not to take the empirical approach, just the typcial moronic approach that excludes data.

Reagen gets elected and hostages freed.

hmmm......

Where the hell were the Dems and why couldn't they free the hostages?

As I wrote before, idiot, I don't think Carter should ever have been president, perhaps an ambassador. The OPEC / Iranian mess started way back, the Iranian hostage debacle was just one cog in it, I certainly would want my president to have done more. Of course after the Beirut barracks car-bombing where 300 Marines were killed, I might have wanted some retaliation/further action for that too, and your hero REAGAN DID ABSOFUCKINGLUTLEY ZERO; perhaps you should wash your windows before you call mine dirty. Real genius example as your try to dodge the Bush/Clinton fiscal data.

The world hates us now? Many countries have always hated us and its not because of Bush 2 taking office. Its well before that.

The Middle East has always hated us but they haven't been motivated to come over here until after the Gulf War. Either way, using the ME as an example of hate is idiotic; they hate generally everyone and infight more than most countries as well. When I use hate as an example, I mean countries that under most presidents don't hate us, but hated us under GHW. Not to mention that a country didn't attack us in 1992 WTC basement and on 9/11/2001, it was a radical Islamic group. OBL was motivated after Iraq invaded Kuwait, OBL told Sausi to handle this inhouse, Saudi said no, went back and forth, Saudi finally revoked OBL's passsport which enraged OBL and they tried to blow up the WTC in 93. That failed and they did the job on 9/11.

Most of Latin America dislikes the US and it has escallated since Bush. They want to defend themselves from a US invasion and stop trading with us, esp oil, for starters. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 651AAJfu0q

Hell dude how many times did Osama attack the US while CLinton was in office?

Twice if both are al quaeda. I see the 93 WTC attack and the USS Cole. 6 and then 17 killed, if my memory serves. Yep, he did nothing, lobbed a missle over sor something irrelevant like that. I guess more than Reagan did when the Beirut barracks were bombed. But the real harm was that he didn't increase port security and that contributed to 9/11. Of course GHW didn't do that either, which also contributed to 9/11. GHW could have signed an emergency order to beef airport and seaport security and it could have been enacted in 2 weeks, perfected over a few months. And of course, like every good neo-con, he knew Clinton totally dropped teh ball, or did he? Or perhaps he dropped it too and tried to disguise it with a war against a country that had nothint to do with 9/11. Talk about wagging the dog. As well, Bush enraged OBL by pushing Iraq back and Saudi rejecting OBL's offer, so he should have done something too, and the 93 WTC attack, 4 1/2 weeks after Clinton took office were the fault of GHWB who ignored threats and attended to fascist Ronnie's fiscal mess that came to fruition after the Gulf War.

So my question to you is: how many times did OBL attack Bush while in office? Oh, just 1 big one. I see and did GHW have forewarning? Yes, and he did nothing, but of course, took the entire month of August off in vacation at his home. Bush had 7 months, 3 weeks to avert 911 and did nothing. If he was such a great president as you assert, such a good Republican that cares about security, then where was the repair of so-called demolision of US security? Can you name 1 act of security GHW moved toward? Yet you're willing to absolve him of any wrongdoing? Wonder why we call you guys, "neo-cons?"

Parts of the world have always hated us. That will never change no matter who is president.

Some parts, yes, but parts that normally like us, then start disliking us when guys like Bush is in office. GHW ignored several world contracts like teh Geneva Convention, things that have never been breached by other presidents.

You are just as nutty as Toddster except you two are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum

You have your right to your opinion, but you and Todd are from the same seed in that you refuse to reference data, just what your diddy taught you and his diddy before him. Really a stupid approach to important issues. Then you have a guy like Will who typically utulizes extreme empirical evidence, unless it interferes with his Nazi roots and core ideology. Funny how neo-cons use selective intellect and consider it normal.

Furthermore, Brian is probably the nuttiest, as he lives on conspiracy theories. Altho I think he's intelligent, and sometimes conspiracy theories are true, we should hang on what is known rather than what we want to be true.

I see you partially addressed the world hate issue, but perhaps you would like to salvage a little dignity and answer the rest of the data I posted.... probably not, the neo-con club you're in wouldn't like that.

- Clinton

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 7%, left 4%
- DEFICIT: Inherited -290B, left a +236B surplus
- DEBT: Inherited 12 straight years of a 250B/yr increase, left a 33B increase his last year, every year the increase lowered
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 3500, left 9800
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.28, left 1.55
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world started to like us again during Clinton's presidency


- Bush

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 4%, left 7.6%
- DEFICIT: Inherited a +236B surplus, left a 455B deficit
- DEBT: Inherited 33B increase, left probably what's going to amount to a trillion dollar debt, maybe more. Hard to figure with the 750B for the banks, the stimulus, all of the war funding, easily at least 1 trillion dollars.
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 9800, left 7900
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.55, left 1.22, but the USD was below the Canadian dollar a year ago, the stock market crash gave the USD a huge bump, as people pulled $$$ out of thr market and stuck it in bonds.
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world hates us now

[Shaun41178(2)]

You keep blaming the president before the current president for all the problems of today. So I am just going back further then you are and blaming the one before the one before.

How many years was FDR president before WW2 started and wasn't able to pull us out of the depression? He was a Dem right?

[EBSB52]

You keep blaming the president before the current president for all the problems of today. So I am just going back further then you are and blaming the one before the one before.

Yes, I'm blaming GWB for the immediate issues. I support those issues with data, not being an ideologue, as you are doing and ignoring obvious historical data that STRONGLY infers fault for policy failures. As for all the problems of today, that's neo-con talk: all, always, never, etc... I try not to use absolutes, may on rare occassion, but generally try not to. I do blame a lot on GHW. As for you going further back, you could be a man and have a little character and actually address the issues/data I presented. Furthermore, the indicators I see point to positives when Clinton was in office for a while, then your boy took them down, so going back to the 70's, quite some time before the recent period, 30-40 years, now going back to the 30's-40's, 75ish years is just pathetic. We've had several recessions since then, hard to see how that impacts anything today. Once more, BE A MAN FOR ONCE AND ADDRESS THIS DATA, IF YOU CANNOT INTELLIGENTLY IMPEACH IT, JUST CONCEDE. Follow A-Rod's example, if it's true, let it go and admit. Or be like Bonds and look stupid for genrations to come.

- Clinton

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 7%, left 4%
- DEFICIT: Inherited -290B, left a +236B surplus
- DEBT: Inherited 12 straight years of a 250B/yr increase, left a 33B increase his last year, every year the increase lowered
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 3500, left 9800
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.28, left 1.55
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world started to like us again during Clinton's presidency


- Bush

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 4%, left 7.6%
- DEFICIT: Inherited a +236B surplus, left a 455B deficit
- DEBT: Inherited 33B increase, left probably what's going to amount to a trillion dollar debt, maybe more. Hard to figure with the 750B for the banks, the stimulus, all of the war funding, easily at least 1 trillion dollars.
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 9800, left 7900
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.55, left 1.22, but the USD was below the Canadian dollar a year ago, the stock market crash gave the USD a huge bump, as people pulled $$$ out of thr market and stuck it in bonds.
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world hates us now

How many years was FDR president before WW2 started and wasn't able to pull us out of the depression? He was a Dem right?

The GDP increased every year (1933 - 1945) with the exception of 37-38 when FDR was in office and the unemployment rate fell every year except 37-38 when, in recovery, there was a short recession. So FDR's policies started to pull us out of the depression for 4-5 years, then a 1-year hiccup, then recovery and WWII which aided in the recovery. So your point, which you know nothing about, doubt you even knew FDR took office in 1933, is impeached as recovery from 25% unemployment and immediate positive growth from 4 straight years of negative growth under Hoover indicates that significant recovery occurred FDR's first year.

Look, quit looking for excuses and ask questions. I don't know your age, I assume very young, but just ask instead of defending a principal/ideology. I'll be the first to blame my politicians for things I disagree with, actions that suck, but let's be real, look at the data and it's obvious the 3 stooges really fucked the country over the last 3 decades and the 1 Dem started the healing process, then was cut short as GWB took office. What you're doing is fishing for reasons why the contemporary Republicans don't suck or why the Dems suck as much instead of looking at the data and drawing an objective and reasonable conclusion. I get nasty because it's fun, but when people don't act ridiculous and fabricate, make assumotions, etc, I love a constructive argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gdp20-40.jpg

[EBSB52]

As a note: If you want to talk about a Dem that sucks, let's go back to Pierce / Buchannon; they sucked so bad they basically formed the Republican party by neccessity by being so pro-slavery as just 1 example. These guys are considered in many polls as the worst presidents of all time. So either quit being an ideolgue and saying everything Republican is good / everything Dem is bad, or just keep living in ignorance.

One of the best presidents of all time, probably 5th best by some polls, was Eisenhower, Republican 1953-61. Nothing he did was really wrong and a military WWII leader to boot. The guy was a godsend, esp after Truman started to suck really badly, actually, I never liked what I read about Truman. Another great Republican was Terrdy Roosevelt, so great he had his face blasted into Rushmore. Teddy was a progressive Republican, conservative values, but enacted consumer protections and refused to let corporations run the country. Reagan and GWB are the opposite of him and are really trash. GHWB was actually a descent president. It's hard to pry him from the neo-con idiocy of Reagan and GWB, but he really was of a different ilk. He raised taxes when he had to, he did a great job with the Gulf War, he was a moderate Republican. Altho I never voted for him, I would have had I not voted for Perot in 92. We really had a rich set of presidents in 92, GHWB, Perot and Clinton, any of which would have been good leaders IMO.

You need to divorce yourself from the one-tracked thinking for your own good and actually learn presidential history. Then admit that some presidents accomplished some good things on both sides of the fence. Furthermore, the most liberal president of all time is Lincoln, the first Republican. Think about it, emancipating the blacks was FAR more revolutionary than even allowing gays to marry. Liberal just means progrssive, conservatives are somewhere between traditional and regressive. This is why Obama = change, McCain = McSame. Learn politics then adopt a strong opinion.

[The Dark Side of Will]

So either quit being an ideolgue and saying everything Republican is good / everything Dem is bad, or just keep living in ignorance.

You're quite the expert at the whole pot calling the kettle black thing...

[EBSB52]

So either quit being an ideolgue and saying everything Republican is good / everything Dem is bad, or just keep living in ignorance.

You're quite the expert at the whole pot calling the kettle black thing...

And this is my point; you neo-cons make assertions, yet refuse to back it up. If you did a stress analysis and just wrote, "Stress analysis passed," they would fire you and if you submitted that to the FAA if you were a DER let's say, the FAA would perhaps take action or at least inverstigate, LOI, etc. Yet in other aspects of your life it's ok.

Also, dipshit, look at the mountain of evidence I posted that under Clinton the economic numbers turned positive and then under your boy they turned negative. Furthermore, I posted a few Dems that suck, perhaps the worst presidents in history and some Republicans that were teh best and now you want to say I'm saying, 'All Dems good, all Repubs bad?' You're the least scientific guy I know and you call yourself an engineer? Is that tantamount to Star Jones calling herself a lawyer? Will, you're a joke, start using a scientific approach, start with this thread.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Blugojavich is a democrat too right? hmmmmm.. shady m-fers

[The Dark Side of Will]

start using a scientific approach, start with this thread.

With someone who offers the same flawed arguments he won't accept from anyone else? sure... that's a good use of my time.

[EBSB52]

Blugojavich is a democrat too right? hmmmmm.. shady m-fers

Loser, there are a bevy of issues that are unanswered, yet you look for any reason to avoid. Is there a little guy inside your head that says, "Hmmmm, I'm a scared fuck for ignoring all these issues?" Or are you just dumb?


But to temporarily address your tangent..... Yes, he is a POS as well as William Jefferson and some others. How do the Dems react to these guys? They tell them to get the fuck out. How does your current corrupt party address these guys? Scooter Libby, convicted of several counts of perjury and interfering with process, ect..... they commute his criminal sentence of 2 years jail. Esp pathetic considering they impeached Clinton for the same types of POLITICAL charges, far less severe than criminal charges/conviction as with Libby. Also, another example, Larry Craig, convicted of lewd acts I believe for tapping under a shitter stall for cock, remembering he's a lead moralist from the so-called party with so-called morals, his party (Repugnicans) told him to resign, he refused, they said, "Oh, ok." What did the Dems of Ill do when Blagojevich refused to resign? The immediately impeached him by unanimity. So sit there and post example after another while I impeach every one of them, sit there smugly and stupidly, but the truth is that your party is ousted and almost without even filibuster powers in congress due to that arrogance. The longer it tales for your party to quit the denials the longer you and yours will be watching the real politicians from the sidelines. Eventually the Repukes will get tired of watching and they will evolve and actually start to serve the electorate, they will have to change their entire ideologies and start to oust people from their own who run amuck. You're a kid, either by age or intellect, or both, just read and learn and quit making idiotic assertions. Either way, address the initial data:


- Clinton

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 7%, left 4%
- DEFICIT: Inherited -290B, left a +236B surplus
- DEBT: Inherited 12 straight years of a 250B/yr increase, left a 33B increase his last year, every year the increase lowered
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 3500, left 9800
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.28, left 1.55
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world started to like us again during Clinton's presidency


- Bush

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 4%, left 7.6%
- DEFICIT: Inherited a +236B surplus, left a 455B deficit
- DEBT: Inherited 33B increase, left probably what's going to amount to a trillion dollar debt, maybe more. Hard to figure with the 750B for the banks, the stimulus, all of the war funding, easily at least 1 trillion dollars.
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 9800, left 7900
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.55, left 1.22, but the USD was below the Canadian dollar a year ago, the stock market crash gave the USD a huge bump, as people pulled $$$ out of thr market and stuck it in bonds.
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world hates us now

[EBSB52]

start using a scientific approach, start with this thread.

With someone who offers the same flawed arguments he won't accept from anyone else? sure... that's a good use of my time.

Yet no examples of these so-called flawed arguments. You are the worst engineer I've ever known. OK, so your left-brained, at least try to hang with me. See, this is the reverse of you posting calculus equations and me pretending I'm getting it and posting counter equations to disprove you or just saying you don’t know what you’re talking about as I claim victory. Hello, pathetic so-called engineer, can you cite an example? <-- Rhetorical, obviously you cannot or you would, next question - why would you continue to hang in making unsupported assertions instead of going away? Funny thing is, with all the posting boards I visit, the arguments end up the same; neo-cons making nowhere 1-liners, constantly in denial, targeting, never admitting or conceding. I do understand this this is the protocol from the right, which is why they are done for quit a while.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Did you know Andrew Johnson is touted as being one of the worst presidents of all time? He was a democrat.

[EBSB52]

Did you know Andrew Johnson is touted as being one of the worst presidents of all time? He was a democrat.

Yes and he was selected by the Republican Party as they chose not to put forward Lincoln's first VP, Hannibal Hamlin. So is he really a Dem or a Republican? Technically a Dem, but as nominated by the Repubs, he's a product of them. Doesn't really matter as it is my belief that the Dems were the pigs of that era, they were pro-slavery and many other things. The Repubs saved the country then, as well as the Union, which is basicallly the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Hamlin

In 1861, Hamlin became Vice President. Maine was the first state in the Northeast to be captured by the Republican Party, and the Lincoln-Hamlin ticket thus made sense in terms of regional balance. Hamlin was also a strong orator, and a known opponent of slavery. While serving as Vice President, Hamlin was not necessarily one of the chief advisers to President Abraham Lincoln, although he urged both the Emancipation Proclamation and the arming of African Americans. He strongly supported Joseph Hooker's appointment as commander of the Army of the Potomac, which was a dismal failure. In June 1864 the National Union Party Convention chose not to nominate Hamlin for a second term. They nominated Unionist Democrat Andrew Johnson of Tennessee as his replacement, in the apparent belief that Johnson would add more to the ticket for the fall election. Lincoln and Johnson were elected in November 1864, and Hamlin's term expired on March 4, 1865.

So basically Hamlin was a peach and they chose a turd to replace him so as to lock up the election and get opposing votes.

Andrew Johnson is the modern-day equivalent of Lieberman. He's a Dem by name, but he's really a Republican. Andrew Johnson was Lincoln's successor after Lincoln's assassination. He was the 1st pres to be impeached. He was a real SOB, typical of what Pierce and Buchannon were.

Again, not only is this typical misdirection from the issue, but only supports what I stated earlier, that the Dems in that era were the scum. As I just wrote, Pierce and Buchannon were the worst, they preceeded Lincoln in that order and made neccessary the Republican Party, the good guys of that day. Problem is and it's usual, that parties get too much power and get drunk from it. So went the GOP pigs and they slowly turned to shit and they still are today. Hopes are that they fix themselves and learn how to serve the people so they can overthrow the Dems by way of actually being better, not having better rhetoric, which is all they have right now.

If we fast-forward to the 1920's when the Repubs started to falter, Coolidge and Harding became teh scum representatives of the Repubs and demarked the changing of the guard. Then came Hoover, who was of the same ilk and furthered the Great Depression. Then came FDR who at that time saved the country and the Dems have been the positive party ever since. Truman was a conservative Dem, so I wasn't crazy about him, then came Eisenhower who is the best, so it wasn't a total changeover. I wasn't a real fan of LBJ either, but then came Nixan and that laid teh groundwork for scumbag Repubs ever since. Of course with one exception, Ford, who probably would have been a good president if it wasn't for those conditions. Bush Sr, GHWB would have also been descent if he was to intertwined with Reagan and his fascist monetary policies, requiring him to raise taxes to avoid a huge debt, which, thx to his son, has been realized. CLinton and GHWB are such good friends because they have similar policies with war and domestic finance, just over the other side of the fence, but not extremists. I don't think GHWB is proud of his son at all.

It's fun and important to visit history, but to look at which party is currently for the people sometimes we need to discard or ignore our parent's ideologies that have been shoved down our throats. That's why I posted the data for the last 2 presidents and the 16 years of contemporary history. I could also post the previous 12 years and we would have the same result, so how much data do you need? You keep going back 150 years and such so as not to address that, which is dishonest. Make a comment or two.



- Clinton

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 7%, left 4%
- DEFICIT: Inherited -290B, left a +236B surplus
- DEBT: Inherited 12 straight years of a 250B/yr increase, left a 33B increase his last year, every year the increase lowered
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 3500, left 9800
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.28, left 1.55
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world started to like us again during Clinton's presidency


- Bush

- UNEMPLOYMENT: Inherited 4%, left 7.6%
- DEFICIT: Inherited a +236B surplus, left a 455B deficit
- DEBT: Inherited 33B increase, left probably what's going to amount to a trillion dollar debt, maybe more. Hard to figure with the 750B for the banks, the stimulus, all of the war funding, easily at least 1 trillion dollars.
- STOCK MARKET: Inherited 9800, left 7900
- DOLLAR VALUE VS CANADA: Inherited 1.55, left 1.22, but the USD was below the Canadian dollar a year ago, the stock market crash gave the USD a huge bump, as people pulled $$$ out of thr market and stuck it in bonds.
- WORLD PERCEPTION: The world hates us now

[Shaun41178(2)]

Hey did you know that LBJ got the USA more involved in vietnam and thus all the atrocities our troops committed over there? All the billions of dollars spent in vietnam? All the lives lost. Wasn't LBJ a democrat?

And you say the world hates us because of Bush. HAHAHAHAHAA