Hennessey V700 CTS-V

[Atilla the Fun]

The point you're now having to face it that, as good as the Supra engine is, a comparably built LSX is even better. Dollar for dollar, no Toyota engine can compete.

A stock 2JZ has been known to make 1000hp on a completely stock long block. I don't think you can claim the same with a stock LS1.

Up until very recently a supra had the record for the fastest texas mile ever. A Ford GT just beat the record. Neither are LSX powered. The LS isn't the end all motor everyone thinks it is.

Supra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr58Fq9fwo

GT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db6zuZjWCmE

Screw the Texas mile, it doesn't prove anything except who has the most money. The LSX is the be all end all, engine, when power adders are to be used, (otherwise it's an 800-cube bBC-based all-aluminum aftermarket beast with an ALL-STAR block and Canfield heads on extended bore centers) the LSX could do the same thing, only better, for less money, and for longer, if any of those idiots were wise enough to use it.
As for the 1000 hp on stock long block, we've had that argument before, do a search. We aren't discussing stock pistons, we're talking best available blocks. The LSX is the better, wiser starting point.

[Atilla the Fun]

I may be doing it wrong, but I put my jack stands under the rear "frame rails" just an inch in front of the rear bumper. I then jack under the rears of the doors, one side at a time. I noticed this, then measured it. I have to raise the jack at least 1/4" before the"rail" comes off the stand. If the car was rigid, this would not be the case.

The compliance of the front suspension is screwing up your measurement.

The technique you described looks at "beam stiffness". While useful, it's not nearly as important as torsional stiffness.

To measure torsional stiffness, you need to support the tub at 3 corners and hang weights from the 4th corner. Use a dial indicator and some geometry to come up with a ftlbs/degree number. I haven't tested it myself, but I've read that the Fiero is ~3500 ftlbs/degree. This is quite good compared to its peers and to cars like the Mjata.

See, I learn stuff from you all the time, you're like a godfather worth having. I suppose I'll now have to redo my testing, only with jackstands at both ends, and no wheels on the car. Thank you for catching my goof. And double thanks for being kind about it. You are a good friend to me. If you ever need me to return the favor, just ask, I'll do my best.

[Atilla the Fun]

I thought you didn't want to try and keep up with the jones es?

I thought of a better response to this.
I can't keep up with the money they spend, but I intend to pass some of their cars, and do so for a lot less monetary investment.

[crzyone]

I thought you didn't want to try and keep up with the jones es?

I thought of a better response to this.
I can't keep up with the money they spend, but I intend to pass some of their cars, and do so for a lot less monetary investment.

You are starting off with the wrong platform. Why not a miata, FC or FD RX-7... anything with an engine bay big enough to fit an LSX and can use a real tramsmission?

A fiero is such a bad starting platform. I've built a V-8 Fiero and sold it. Too many weaknesses in the design. You will start thinking tubular suspension, weight reduction, wide body, stiffening this and that, the bad aerodynamics, lack of afterkarket aero blah blah blah.

But good luck with your Ferrari beating fiero...

[Atilla the Fun]

I guess I could thank you for trying to warn me against what you seem to feel is a waste of my limited funds, but this is my heart's desire. And if you're opposed to it, why be active in RFT? Just to warn guys like me? Well, I'd love to get an FD, but instead I do have my '89 Mustang with an LSx in it, it's getting a Griggs SLA front conversion to get rid of the struts, and a Steeda 5-Link-2 with Griggs Watt's Link, and a 10-point chrome-moly roll cage. I also have my '84 Trans Am, also sporting an LSx, it's in the garage at this very minute. The Mustangs are much easier to get than the FDs, and much cheaper, having been built in greater numbers. And they have more aftermarket support than all other cars on earth combined. It's a billion-dollar-a-year industry in the USA alone!

[The Dark Side of Will]

RFT has grown into a community of social misfits that reaches beyond the confines of the Fiero world.

What's the torsional stiffness of the Fox platform? How much money are you going to put into upgrading it? Could you buy a C4 Corvette for that price?

When you spend the money up front to get into a high end platform like a Supra, FD, Skyline or Corvette (even C4's have a lot of engineering in them), you're not just paying for the "catalog accessories" like aluminum suspension components, big brakes, wide wheels, etc. You're paying for the engineering that set the suspension geometry up correctly, the design of the body for torsional stiffness and the ability to handle power, and in modern cars, even high speed aerodynamics.

Within a year or two of the C5 being introduced, Lingenfelter had TT'd one to 650 HP and driven it to 220 mph. Other than the turbos, the only mods he did were 2.73 gears to run in 5th instead of 6th and different front shocks. In terms of suspension and aero, the car was basically stock.

Even if you can put the power and gearing into the car, trying to drive a Fiero to 220 mph would be suicidal.

The Fiero is an ok platform if you want to get into something cheap and then totally re-engineer the important bits.

[darkhorizon]

I pretty much refuse to go much over 130 in a fiero.

I need to lighten it a bit more before I run 9s this year.

[Atilla the Fun]

First, to the OP, sorry we're so far off topic.
I've been as fast as 85 mph in a Fiero, my white '84, and I could feel the aero problem. That's why I'm dead set on an aluminum airdam much like what Hot Rod magazine put on their white '78-'81 Camaro they took to the Bonneville salt flats. It's also why I'm thinking outside the box on the hood venting. Most of the ones I see are recessed. Guru just posted pics in my 5.3 thread of a non-recessed method. I intend to combine them.
Moving on,
Getting into something cheap then redoing the important bits always was, and still is, the idea, for me. Because I'm so late to the game, I end up looking like a copycat, but that can't be helped.
I know I can't be the next Troy Trepanier, but I'd like to be. I do have the skills, just not the budget. My creativity, my imagination, is limited, but I can turn something inferior into something superior. That's what I must do. Both for my own satisfaction, and for a shot at ever having people pay me to do their cars. I can do anything Trepanier can do, and he's backlogged. I work for much less personal pay, but I have no rolling calling card to prove my hands are skilled enough. When I equal an Enzo, I'll have some credentials, sitting there ticking cool on 4 shredded competition-compound tires.
What would be better? If I could then get it shipped to Germany, there to have the lady of the 'ring wring it out.
You expect such results from an R35 or a dedicated race car. If I can make a pedestrian Fiero do it, then I will have earned my place in the world, and my glory.
Now you guys go ahead and do what people do, tear down the little guy who has optimism, vision, ambition and persistence.
With something like a C6 or an R35, there's really nothing left for me to do. Cars like those can't meet my needs. A C4 has always been high on my list, but the right deal never came along.

[jelly2m81]

Then just do it, stop making claims that you will. That is what makes people a dreamer, saying I'm doing this, I'm doing that. 9.99 times out of 10 these dreamers never complete their claims.

Take FieroX for example, many people said he would never reach his goal, he eventually kept quiet and attained what he was after and then came and showed people that he did infact make the fastest accelerating Fiero.

How many short / narrow wheel base production cars do you see with the kind of performance figures you have in mind? None. Sure the Elise / Exige has handling, but it's not a speed demon like you want to obtain, and it weighs like half the weigh of a Fiero and has around a 4 inch wider track.

Dreams and goals are good to have, but you may have picked the worst platform to obtain the results you want.

So, Prove us wrong. Stop posting what you are going to do and just get on with the job and do it.

[Atilla the Fun]

Uh, hello, anyone home? Probably not. I haven't spent a penny on any of my cars in over 6 months, it's all being saved for the Fiero. I am progressing on my adapter plate, rather quickly. In fact, there is a thread in Tech. It's a bit behind.
So far I've proven every single claim I've made, that I've had the resources to follow through on.
I further think noone's home because my last post explained exactly why it must be an car that, as you say, "is the worst possible".
Yes the Exige / Elise is lighter. It also doesn't fit decent tires. Track width? Just how wide do you think my track is going to be with 10" rear wheels, with a +23.8mm offset? At least 3" more than stock.
Oops, dinner's ready. Later.

[jelly2m81]

Yes the Exige / Elise is lighter. It also doesn't fit decent tires. Track width? Just how wide do you think my track is going to be with 10" rear wheels, with a +23.8mm offset? At least 3" more than stock.

LOL ' Elise doesn't fit decent tires' seriously, is that how you plan on making it handle? relying on tires?

Yes unsprung weight does wonders for handling...........

[The Dark Side of Will]

Reducing sprung weight does wonders for handling.

Haha... Since the Elise has a composite body, widening the fenders is at least as easy as it in with the Fiero. There may be wide fenders for Elises already on the market.

How much tire do you need under a 2000# ride?

I'm pretty sure you can fit 17+x10" wheels under stock Fiero bodywork, but it takes some suspension mods.

An Elise/Exige with 500 HP would be as fast at low speeds as a Bugatti, which weighs 4300#. I've seen in-car video of an Elise with a turbo 3ZZ engine at 450 HP. It would break loose and spin out every time the turbo spooled. A DI Turbo Ecotec even at only 300 HP would be a fantastic powerplant for an Elise.

[Atilla the Fun]

I did some checking, I do believe we could fit 17x10 under the rear, with a little work. I found some 17x10s with a +23.8 mm offset, 5 on 114.3 mm bolt pattern, for $133 each. They also offer a +46.0 mm offset, same price, same everything else.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The 46mm *might* work, but by my calcs to fit the wheel under stock bodywork, a 17x10 would have to have a 51mm offset. That would require strut blocks to push the struts ~1" inboard from the knuckles.

I'm running 16x8-25 wheels with 255/50-16 tireson my Northstar car. That combo has absolutely the most front spacing I would want to use under stock bodywork. It is also the widest 16" wheel that can be used on a Fiero. Assuming that the only way to grow the width is inward, one can theoretically go one inch wider to 17x9-38 and two inches wider to 17x10-51.

WCF claims to have fit 17x9-45. I assume this is on an early car. If one takes this as the max back spacing (159.3), and puts it together with the max front spacing defined above (76.6), the resulting wheel is 17x9.25-41. Adding an inch to the inside would yield a 17x10-54. This is only 1/8" off from the 17x10-51 derived above.

An '88 can take at least 1/2" (13mm) more back spacing than an early car can.

[Atilla the Fun]

But according to Joe Torma's offset thread, the +23.8 is right if the stock struts are left attached to the stock uprights in the stock method. However, Kohburn has a pic of some adapters that move the uprights end inboard, so then I believe the +46mm would be just about tucked. And considering how much better 235/60R15s on 6" rims look on the back of a fiero from behind versus 185/75R14s, ( with my black and white twins parked side by side) tucking some 275/40R17s would look ever so evil.

[The Dark Side of Will]

But according to Joe Torma's offset thread, the +23.8 is right if the stock struts are left attached to the stock uprights in the stock method. However, Kohburn has a pic of some adapters that move the uprights end inboard, so then I believe the +46mm would be just about tucked. And considering how much better 235/60R15s on 6" rims look on the back of a fiero from behind versus 185/75R14s, ( with my black and white twins parked side by side) tucking some 275/40R17s would look ever so evil.

As defined above, I don't think the 24mm offset would work. Can you provide a reference?

[Atilla the Fun]

Might take me a minute to find it. Yes, it would stick out past stock Fiero bodywork, but it'd keep the rim off the strut. I'll go find it now.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Interesting way of looking at it. Link to thread or website?

Of course the 10/51 combo I want to see isn't there...

[Atilla the Fun]

this is from Old Europe 's general fiero chat subforum, not the tech subforum. That red line on the left represents the suspension. Joe still adds new wheels by request, just ask nicely for a 10" with a +51 mm
Also, the pic I just posted is only the bottom 1/4th of the diagram.

[The Dark Side of Will]

lol... when someone asks for a link, they're thinking of something that looks like this: http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/058236.html