Real Fiero Tech

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Been musing about Rally-Crossing the Eagle when I get it on the road... I have no expectation that it will do well, but I want to beat on it.

"it" is not the name of the game; "you" are. Its a driver's game. While it does get more competitive when you run in Modified (which any car with an engine swap runs in), there is no reason you can't competitive in an Eagle if you have driving talent. The car just needs to last the event and not have any major flaws.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/projec ... amc-eagle/
http://bringatrailer.com/2011/10/06/sta ... 4-project/

CincinnatiFiero wrote:Very cool, I don't have a car worth rallycrossing, but a few of my friends are getting into it out here, I'd really like to try it. Is there a RWD class?

Yep there's a RWD class. In my region, there's an old Celica rally car, another Celica, a Miata (which also gets autocrossed), a couple E30s, and some other stuff I forget. Looks like fun in a RWD car.

Series8217 wrote:

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Been musing about Rally-Crossing the Eagle when I get it on the road... I have no expectation that it will do well, but I want to beat on it.

"it" is not the name of the game; "you" are. Its a driver's game. While it does get more competitive when you run in Modified (which any car with an engine swap runs in), there is no reason you can't competitive in an Eagle if you have driving talent. The car just needs to last the event and not have any major flaws.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/projec ... amc-eagle/
http://bringatrailer.com/2011/10/06/sta ... 4-project/

CincinnatiFiero wrote:Very cool, I don't have a car worth rallycrossing, but a few of my friends are getting into it out here, I'd really like to try it. Is there a RWD class?

Yep there's a RWD class. In my region, there's an old Celica rally car, another Celica, a Miata (which also gets autocrossed), a couple E30s, and some other stuff I forget. Looks like fun in a RWD car.

The GRM bit is interesting. Eagles had something like 110 HP and 230 ftlbs stock from the 258. With 2.35 gears in the autragic cars, they are painfully slow. The T5 manual trans cars are a little better with 2.73's.

The built 390 in the BAT piece is interesting, but that's obviously a dedicated race car.

The Dark Side of Will wrote: The GRM bit is interesting. Eagles had something like 110 HP and 230 ftlbs stock from the 258. With 2.35 gears in the autragic cars, they are painfully slow.

My Outback has like 165/166 (well, it did when it was new) and weighs 3500 lbs. I regularly beat cars with DOUBLE the power to weight ratio. Again, it's a driver's game.

I understand... but that car has to be able to acquire speed before it can be driven well at speed

My project Eagle would be good at that, but it would be in the modified class with the 4.0 EFI engine.

We got to run on the short course truck track at Glen Helen Raceway last weekend. Here's one of my runs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-qFuVrL1jY

And a photo:

Placed 3rd in Stock AWD in the SCCA RallyCross SoPac National Challenge, 2nd in Glen Helen RallyX #3


(photo by Regine Trias)


(photo by Regine Trias)

Throw some mud, mang!

Parts
I got some JDM Legacy B4 Bilsteins:


These are slightly shorter than the Outback struts but I'm considering getting the travel back by removing the separator pistons and adding remote reservoirs. Not that I will need much travel for the spring rates I want to run...

The fronts are inverted (win!!), with the piston attached to the suspension and the body of the strut on the car. This reduces unsprung weight and adds considerable strength to resist bending loads. It's basically a 36mm strut body flipped upside down with the strut shaft bolted to the end of the normal strut housing. Additionally, there are some teflon guides/seals so the inverted body can slide in and out of the housing.

I suspect I could convert these to take-aparts and revalve them myself with 36mm and 46mm Bilstein valving parts. However, I'm probably just going to have Bilstein revalve them for me once I figure out what spring rates I want to run. My target ride frequencies are 2.2 Hz (front) and 2.4 Hz (rear).

The rears have a 46mm body, so when I finish my Bilstein Fiero suspension project I should already have the parts to revalve those as well.

Plan
I plan on using these struts to build a track-only suspension for my Outback. I will switch between stock for rallycross and the Bilsteins + stiff springs for track days. The rears change out in about 20 minutes, but the fronts are a bit more involved.. so I picked up a full set of front corners (strut, spring, tophat, knuckle, hub, rotor, balljoint, brake caliper) which I will swap in as one piece. I'll probably just keep the same calipers on the car, so that I don't have to bleed the system each time. Brake pads are open in stock class rallycross, so I can just run track pads all the time. Since the knuckle and strut won't change, the camber and caster alignment should be reproducible. I'll only have to realign the toe.

The only consumable during the switch is the axle nuts up front. I keep a stock of OE parts right now but I'll have to order a few more to make sure I always have enough on hand. Otherwise I guess I could just pick up another front axle (I already have one extra). It's just a split pin holding them into the trans, and due to the stub arrangement no oil comes out when they're pulled. Then I would leave the axle attached to the hub for each suspension setup.

Since the Outback is factory-equipped with ~25mm spacers on all the suspension points (it's effectively a body-lifted Legacy), I won't be able to lower it as far as a Legacy without severely compromising suspension geometry. I'll probably just lower it an inch or two in an attempt to get the CoG down a bit.

Tires will be 255 or 275, whatever I can fit. Probably something in the sub-200 treadwear range since I don't have to daily drive on them. Unlike the Fiero, which has room for 2 or 3 tires, the Outback has enough cargo capacity to carry two whole sets in the back on the way to and from the track, with room leftover for tools and a passenger or two.

Question
Besides bushing compliance (which has no easily reversible solution) and chassis stiffness (which I plan to add bolt-in braces for), are there any other concerns with running absurd spring rates on a stock chassis?

Sweeet... going whole hog.

Probably won't be doing another track day in the Fiero for a little while. After another 2nd place finish at last weekend's rallyX in my Outback I'm now running a very close 2nd in the regional rallycross championship, so I need to skip some track days to run the rest of the rallyx events this season. No guaranteed podium yet... everyone gets to drop their two lowest scores for the season, so things could change quickly after the next two events (Oct 12/13).


In suspension news, I started disassembling the Bilstein struts, but the damper shaft is siezed to the strut housing and I haven't been able to get it loose. Unlike the Cobra R Bilsteins I picked up off ebay recently, the Subaru Bilsteins have a slot at the shaft end instead of an internal hex. I can't get much torque on without just breaking my tool. I've already snapped a few impact bits. The slot is getting messed up now, and I don't think there's enough material to double-slot it and use a phillips. Might have to weld something on and then junk the shaft . Unfortunately I have two of these that I need to get apart..

Series8217 wrote:Probably won't be doing another track day in the Fiero for a little while. After another 2nd place finish at last weekend's rallyX in my Outback I'm now running a very close 2nd in the regional rallycross championship, so I need to skip some track days to run the rest of the rallyx events this season. No guaranteed podium yet... everyone gets to drop their two lowest scores for the season, so things could change quickly after the next two events (Oct 12/13).

After scoring correction / rules enforcement, I now won the last event and am leading my class in the championship by a narrow margin.

The next two days are championship points events. So I could come home on Sunday with a secure lead, or have lost my chance at first. Here goes...

Awesome! Rock it!

Good luck! And great work!

Thanks!

Cool pic from the last event:


I think I'm going to get a poster of this one.

Didn't do so well on Saturday. The dry, predictable surface conditions favored the faster cars running street/all season tires. On Sunday however, colder weather and a wetter course gave me the opportunity to pull ahead and I did. First place!

Congrats man, first place in any racing is impressive.

Congrats!

Well done!

Thanks!

The championship scoring hasn't been officially updated yet, but I calculated the updates myself for the top finishers and it looks like I've secured 2nd place in the 2013 championship series, and a pretty likely overall win if I don't completely screw up. There's only one driver with enough points to beat me, so in December, we shall battle .

Some videos:

One of my runs from Sunday: http://goo.gl/LQ3sv1 (run 3, stock AWD)

Also there was a near-accident at Sunday's event. Watch my video above to see what the finish looks like... The other vehicle blew straight through the marker cones that indicate the immediate turn after the finish, and re-entered the course in front of me: http://goo.gl/fxPYFt

If it happened 5 seconds later there probably would have been a collision. I didn't even know what was going on until I passed the car. No red flags were thrown (there was not really time for it).

Congrats on the win!