88 L36 to L67 swap

[jelly2m81]

So I picked up a 99 Regal LS with a 3800 (L36) 4 spd Auto to swap into the wife's car and I was wondering how to tell what transaxle it has so I can research building the axles and know when I send the PCM to Sinister.

I tried searching on Google but didn't find a clear answer other than the 4T60E was discontinued after 1997, so I am assuming it has the 4T65E. Any pointers how to confirm what it is?

EDIT: changed the name of this tread, may as use this for my questions and shit.

[AkursedX]

There should be a tag on the transmission and you can use this link to discern what you have: http://www.fastfieros.com/tech/4t65e_tr ... eneral.htm to be certain.

I did some searching and I could not even find a 1999 Buick Century that came with a 3800. Maybe it's a Canadian option?? But I'm about 98% certain that if you have a 1999 L36 engine, it will be mated to a 4T65E-non-HD.

[jelly2m81]

Maybe it's a Regal I don't know, the Ad said Century, I looked under the hood and went for a spin, I didn't look at anything else....LOL


EDIT:
I guess maybe it is a Regal judging by the ad pic, that looks like Regal on the door.

[jelly2m81]

Another question about the Valve cover gasket and plug wire clip recall. Is it worth having done as from what I read they only replace the left gasket and not the other, I'll be switching the valve covers around anyway and will want new gaskets in both. Is there anything else they tend to replace?

[Sinister Fiero]

1999 was the last year for the 4T60-E. (All 3800-equipped cars quit using them after 1997).

If the car is 1997-newer and the engine is the 3800 Supercharged, then it has a 4T65-E HD.

If the FWD car is a 1998-newer and the engine is the 3800 non-supercharged, then it has a 4T65-E (non HD).

Transmission ID Tag application charts can be found here: http://www.gmtuners.com/transmission/index.htm

FYI: the 99 Buick Century was only available with the 3100 V6 and 4T60-E transmission.

-ryan

[jelly2m81]

I'm guessing it is a Regal, the ad said Century, I went and only looked under the hood, I don't even recall the interior color. It looks like Regal on the door in the pic and like you guys, I can't find anything online for a Century with a 3800.

Anyway, when I get the towing company to take it to the shop I'll pull it and get the correct info from the transaxle and will be sending you the PCM for your magic Ryan.

[Shaun41178(2)]

are we going to be seeing another 3800 swap from The Jelly?

[jelly2m81]

are we going to be seeing another 3800 swap from The Jelly?

HA! I'm bad for pics, I just go to work and work.

Just going to be a simple NA install into the Wifes 88 GT. Not building a race car and I doubt it will ever see a dyno or 1/4 mile track, just after better fuel economy and a little more passing power.

I'll low mount the alternator, use the stock exhaust manifolds and Regal fuel pump. probably the only 'mod' will be a spintech ( or similiar ) muffler, but that's just because the one on the car now has the seams gone in it and it needs a muffler regardless. With the decklid closed it will appear to be stock.

Got the Regal for 300.00, not as low mileage as I want but it has a reasonable 156k kilometers ( under 100k miles), should be lots of life left in the engine and transaxle yet. Heck the 2.8 in it now has over 220k miles and still running fine.

[jelly2m81]

I picked up the car today, yes it is a Regal. Im surprised how well the NA 3800's pull in those things.

[jelly2m81]

Alrighty then. No progress yet as work got busy.... typicial.

Just doing some planning, have some thoughs and some questions ( yeah I'm pointing at you Ryan...;p)


Speedo- If I recall, I think I read that a signal convertor needs to be built. I don't recall what I did for the L67 swap I did, that one he used the earlier OBD I computer, I will be using the 99 OBD PCM.

Mounts- Most likely will use 2 low mounts, fore and aft. Haven't decided on the Dodge truck mounts or go with something similiar to Ryan's cradle mount setup. I might even see what I can do with what mounts are in the Regal.

Exhaust- Stock manifolds, I will use a convertor. Packaging will be tight as I do not want to cut the trunk.

Muffler- Either a Spintech or I'm thinking of taking the stock muffler, cutting it open and installing a 2.5" inlet pipe and then wrapping it with a stainless shell. I am assuming the 2 outlets will flow enough.

Axles- I haven't done a 4 spd auto install before so I'll go by what is on Ryan's page for those.

Digital cruise- from the Regal. The Fiero cruise stalk can be wired directlty to the PCM I believe?

Radiator fan- I remember I had to make changed to the dash wiring for the fan to work correctly.

AC - I have to look into the AC wiring and pressure switches. Will be using the 3800 Compressor.

Question on the Valve covers. Has anyone modded them? Wife says she want's the engine cover on it if possible, but when the VC's get swapped the oil fill will place the engine cover to the far right side. I was thinking of trying to move the oil fill so that it would allow the engine cover to sit in the proper spot. There's a guy around here that does plastic welding, I wonder if that will hold it, JB weld or similiar probably will but how is that for oil resistance?

And a far out there question. How much boost can a L36 handle? Wouldn't be looking for maximum horsepower, just something similiar to the L67 power output, maybe more if I turbo it. Will the stock L36 injectors support more power?

[BC2002SS]

with a 4t65-e non HD you can use a stock Fiero auto driver side axle on the driver-side. A stock Fiero manual driver side axle on passenger side.

[jelly2m81]

Guess I found my engine mounts today, I found a set of leaf Spring bushings I took out of a new set of springs last spring. They are about 1-3/4 diameter and 2-1/2 inchs long. Should be sturdy enough if they are made to carry the weight of a car.

[jelly2m81]

Heh talk about a slacker, I only just pulled the drivetrains from the Regal and Fiero last night..... Wife said if I don't get it done this summer it's grounds for divorce LOL.

That 3800 started right up after sitting for 2 years.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Sometimes I feel that way about the things I'm working on...

EFI's nice like that.

[jelly2m81]

The 4T65E is a beast to try to low mount the drive train. I spent 5 hours positioning the drivetrain on the cradle only to always find something really close to hitting. There's a servo housing at the rear of the transaxle that is conflicting with the rear bulkhead of the cradle and I'm debating on clearancing the cradle to make it clear. I'm trying the two drivers side Fiero axle method which is creating this issue when centering the drivetrain. So 5 hours later I don't have a single mount started... fuk...

I can pull the drivetrain forward but That pulls the axles forward of the center point of the rear lateral links.

Going with a 4 point bottom side mounts, Any foreseeable issue with mounting the rear engine side mount to the end of the transaxle?

[jelly2m81]

It's amazing how much you forget and /or never pay attention to. 88's don't run the axle centered between the lateral links, it runs more towards the forward one. I went and looked at my GT and seen this, looking at a rear knuckle off a car confirmed the alxe runs what visually looks like an inch forward of the center point between the fore and aft link.

Wonder if rear control arm bushings will carry and support the weight and forces of the drivetrain? I found a couple boxes of new bushings and have a pile of rear CA's I can cut up..
Drivetrain weight is something around 650 lbs at the low side from what I can find online.

[fieroguru]

I used 4 lower control arm bushings for the mounts on my LS4/F40 and there is no visible movement. Mine are from the front lower control arms of a mid 70's camaro. They are quite stiff and cheap (about $7 each). Just space them as far apart as possible on all 4 corners of the swap.

[jelly2m81]

Good info Guru, I'm thinking on the engine side put the rear off of the transaxle to the frame, and from the front of the block out over and forward of the fore cross beam. I can also add a 3rd engine side mount off of the back side of the block down to the factory mounting pad on the cradle.

[jelly2m81]

I started building the mounts with the ends of rear control arms but wasn't happy with them, they looked way too small and kinda ghetto so I started over an picked up 4 fairly large bushings from the spring shop that will work nicely.

Still needs some welding and trimming, not to worried about pretty as it's a personal car. I liked how Sinister did his mounts so I'm doing the same.



Still on the fence about the rear engine mount bolted to the transaxle outputshaft housing, That would be the best place to distribute the load but I'm leery of breaking it.

This is the first rendition usng the end of a control arm, that will be redone using the new bushings

[Sinister Fiero]

Still on the fence about the rear engine mount bolted to the transaxle outputshaft housing, That would be the best place to distribute the load but I'm leery of breaking it.

You won't break it.