Dare to be not-different

[Atilla the Fun]

The LSx as the only swap, despite seeming as done-to-death as the old 350 SBC.
There's nothing boring about 500 HP.
Sure, a Jag V12 is um...individual, but the novelty soon wears off, then all you're left with is an old, heavy, inefficient, huge engine which you can't rebuild even if you could afford it.
There are many excellent reasons for the LSx swap.
And the guy doing the Jag in the MG will soon regret it. May take a year or 2, but 3 years from now, he'll be doing something different.
Until you've driven an LSx, in a large variety of situations, you really can't grasp why everyone is switching to it.
It sort of is Deity's own engine.
The old 350 still responds better for cheaper, but only below the 400 HP level. Above that, nothing on earth truly approaches it. The 2JZ can compete for ultimate power and durability, and maybe that at cost, but it then fails to meet the same emissions standards as the LSx.
Dare to be different is not adequate justification, because everyone who goes down that road becomes disenchanted with their waste of money. You don't find any stories of people regretting the move to the LSx. Yeah, a couple of Big Block guys miss the instant torque, and a few 350 guys miss the cheapness, and a few like myself have noted that the LSx just doesn't fit as easily as the 350 in some places, but the final cost for the huge power always rewards the LSx swapper.
Those who aren't convinced, don't ever try any LSx. Because once you do, you'll never again stay truly satisfied with anything else ever again. It's like owning and daily driving an LT1 '95 Camaro, then it gets totalled and the insurance payoff only gets you a 2.5L '83 Camaro replacement. You'll never make peace with it. You will end up with another 5.7L.
All analogies are flawed. But that one's really good.
Why fight it? That's like having an orgasm, then deciding you never want another one.
Jump on the LSx bandwagon. There is NOTHING wrong with jumping on it.

[Indy]

Been there, driven it, cars, trucks, stock, swapped, modded. It was neat. Didn't do it for me. Done. The sound of one running has never given me wood. Can't say the same for every other engine. Like you, I have a good idea of what I want. The difference is I've recognised that there isn't any square peg made to fit every round hole. Dare to adapt.

[Sinister Fiero]

IMHO, the biggest problem with the LSx is torque, or lack of it. HP is great for bragging rights and high speed runs, but you need TQ to move the vehicle from the starting line or stop sign. When GM introduced the 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 variants of the LS1 for the trucks to replace the aging 5.0/5.7 Vortec (really a SBC) V8; they hurt the trucks' usable performance. I've never driven a 4.8, 5.3, or 6.0-equipped GM truck that pulled a trailer or hauled a load as good as my 96 5.7 vortec-equipped truck does. Now we're just talking about normal, LEGAL driving here. I'm not talking about kick-downs or drag-racing. The LS engines obviously win there because they produce more HP, easier and cheaper than the SBC engines of old can.

But if you really want to talk about the whole picture, you can't beat a turbo 3.8 (or 3800). Now you can have your cake and eat it too. 30mpg or better hwy fuel economy is a definite possibility out of the same engine that can produce MORE than 500hp. Can a V8 do that? Not unless you've got a Corvette or equiv aero-efficient body and matching efficient drivetrain. Sure, it takes boost to get a 3.8L V6 perform. But when the power is not needed, you’ve only got 6 cylinders to drag around. Besides, when you've seen full-bodied, 3500+ lb Buick G-bodies run 6-sec 1/4 miles with only 6 cylinders and a hair dryer; I ask: Why have a V8?

[Jinxmutt]

I wish the 3800 had a mainstream al head supplier. Bleh.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Lol... yeah, imagine what the 3800 could do if it could muster more than 150 cfm of port flow.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I've never driven a 4.8, 5.3, or 6.0-equipped GM truck that pulled a trailer or hauled a load as good as my 96 5.7 vortec-equipped truck does.

What about fuel economy with the new engines vs. the old?

[Sinister Fiero]

I've never driven a 4.8, 5.3, or 6.0-equipped GM truck that pulled a trailer or hauled a load as good as my 96 5.7 vortec-equipped truck does.

What about fuel economy with the new engines vs. the old?

5.3L 1/2-ton trucks are stickered to get about 20-21 mpg hwy, IIRC. 6.0's, not so much... Can't tell you about the 4.8's.

I know my 5.7 doesn't do that good (max = 17), but I do have a 3/4-ton with the huge 14 bolt rear end in it. I tuned on a 97 1/2-ton 4x4 a couple of years ago that the guy had a set of headers, cat-back system, and K&N filter on. He reported getting 22 mpg hwy out of that truck (yes, I know it wasn't bone stock).

[The Dark Side of Will]

My dad's Suburban with EFI Cadillac 500, 4L80E and 14 bolt floater with 3.23's will crack double digits... I know it needs tuning, though.

The 3800 wouldn't make a great towing engine... fuel consumption would skyrocket if you had to tow up a mountain, boosting all the way.

[Sinister Fiero]

My dad's Suburban with EFI Cadillac 500, 4L80E and 14 bolt floater with 3.23's will crack double digits... I know it needs tuning, though.

The 3800 wouldn't make a great towing engine... fuel consumption would skyrocket if you had to tow up a mountain, boosting all the way.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting stuffing a 3800 into a fullsize truck and then towing with it. I was just comparing that 3800 engine (turbocharged) to an LSx build in a car (and what they could do) since Atilla brought up the subject.

I threw the truck LSx motors vs. 5.0/5.7 vortec motors comparo in there to point out the lack of torque I felt the truck LSx (and even car LSx) engines produced vs. the old SBC engine. I just think GM pulled yet another dumb move by putting a high-RPM / HP producing design engine (that lacked low end torque) into a truck. And for the record, as good as the 5.0/5.7 vortecs were, GM really did them a dis-service by putting that crappy intake and injection system on them. A long runner intake (such as the TPI) would have been the best thing to use in a truck - which it never was (from the factory, anyway).

Now one swap I've been itching to do is a 3800 Series 2 N/A swap into an S10 to see what kind of gas mileage I can get out of it. I know the L36 is about 30 ft/lbs of torque short of what the vin W 4.3 produces, but most S-10's come with the lower-output vin X 4.3 anyway which the L36 is comparible to in torque numbers (and even exceeds it in HP). I know the L36 gets 37+ MPG in a Fiero and 30+ MPG in my wife's 96 Olds 88 sedan, so I'm willing to bet one in an S10 should get close to 30 which would far exceed what ANY 4.3 can do.

[CincinnatiFiero]

Buy a dirtymax and tuner. As close to archies 10 sec pass to 30mpg in one flip claims.

Really have your cake and eat it too. Run 10-11s (obviously not on a tuner alone), get 20 mpg, ability to haul (that broken LSx), ability to pull (small buildings), ability to drag (beating aforementioned C6s), and ability to four wheel (over said C6)... all in the same vehicle... at the same time. My gawd.

And then buy a Cummins for when the dirtymax pukes the injectors and glow plugs.

[fieroguru]

Now one swap I've been itching to do is a 3800 Series 2 N/A swap into an S10 to see what kind of gas mileage I can get out of it. I know the L36 is about 30 ft/lbs of torque short of what the vin W 4.3 produces, but most S-10's come with the lower-output vin X 4.3 anyway which the L36 is comparible to in torque numbers (and even exceeds it in HP). I know the L36 gets 37+ MPG in a Fiero and 30+ MPG in my wife's 96 Olds 88 sedan, so I'm willing to bet one in an S10 should get close to 30 which would far exceed what ANY 4.3 can do.

The bone stock 150K+ mile CPI 4.3/4T60 in my 88 fiero would pull down 32 mpg on the interstate, so the reason they barely get mid 20's in the S10 probably has more to do with the S10 itself than it has to do with the 4.3. I would be all over an LS(x) based aluminum block 4.3...

[fieroguru]

As for an LS(x) into a Fiero, I am curious to see how the LS4/F40 combo fairs in the power/weight/fuel efficiency departments compared to my old SBC/Getrag combo. Different or not, that is the path my curiosity is taking me.

[Pocket]

I just think GM pulled yet another dumb move by putting a high-RPM / HP producing design engine (that lacked low end torque) into a truck.

Never drove a 6.0 truck have you? Our GMC has no trouble driving anywhere unloaded or with a 16' trailer hauling 8,000lbs of car(s). Torque, they have plenty of. Dont compare all LSx engines to the wimpy 4.8's or early 5.3s GM put in everything

[Sinister Fiero]

The bone stock 150K+ mile CPI 4.3/4T60 in my 88 fiero would pull down 32 mpg on the interstate

Yea but the bone stock L36 / 4T60-E swap I did in my Wife's Fiero bested that by getting 37+ mpg on the interstate. Would the L36 do better in an S10 than the 4.3 could? Don't know. Haven't tried it yet. But maybe...

[Sinister Fiero]

Never drove a 6.0 truck have you? Our GMC has no trouble driving anywhere unloaded or with a 16' trailer hauling 8,000lbs of car(s). Torque, they have plenty of. Dont compare all LSx engines to the wimpy 4.8's or early 5.3s GM put in everything

I've driven several GM trucks that had the 6.0. I wasn't impressed. Not as much low end torque as my 5.7L vortec. Midrange felt about the same, and top end of course did feel better on the 6.0. But I don't want to be revving the daylights out of the engine going down the highway. At 70mph I'm turning about 2000 rpm with my 5.7 and it doesn't have to kick out of 4th to maintain that speed when I'm hauling (TCC will disengage on hills tho).

[Sinister Fiero]

Buy a dirtymax

Oh I'm already sold on that. My uncle bought a 2004 GMC K2500 HD Crew Cab shortbed with the duramax for his heavy equipment business new and has almost put 200,000 miles on it to date. They still have it. Never had a problem with the engine or trans, but it has been thru a transfer case, wheel bearing, and front differential. I just went on a road trip with him and it was getting 26 mpg on the highway (not hauling anything, of course).

And then buy a Cummins for when the dirtymax pukes the injectors and glow plugs.

My uncle hasn't had any engine or transmission problems in their company truck and he lets the salesmen drive it quite a bit (I know they beat the crap out of it). Never has puked an injector or glow plug. Can the Cummins get 26mpg on the highway too?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Not as much low end torque as my 5.7L vortec.

I've been told that the LT1 develops more low RPM torque than the LS1.

Also drove a 6.0/4L80E in a 2500 Chevy Express a couple of jobs ago. It took a few beats to spool up if you nailed it off the line. Never had to tow anything with it, though.

[crzyone]

Can the Cummins get 26mpg on the highway too?

At around 70mph I get 21-22mpg with my cummins. Mine is an 02 24 valve with an edge programmer. My tires are much larger than stock as well.

Yesterday on a 2 hour drive I was averaging about 20mpg at 75mph. Not too bad for a large beastly truck.

[CincinnatiFiero]

So jealous of your truck dude.

Ugh need to sell F250...