GM and Corvette in the 21st century?

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/25/next ... -turbo-v8/

Found referenced on a BMW forum of all places...

[crzyone]

I like the idea of a 10,000rpm small V-8 but at 3L it might suffer in off boost performance. A 4L or so V-8 would offer better response.

Kind of neat, I'd like to see what tuners could do with an engine like that.

[CincinnatiFiero]

Be interesting to see if the market would allow them to sell that.

As bad ass as that sounds that totally changes the culture that is corvettes. Corvettes were always a cheap chassis strapped to a big ass motor. A ton of tech like that may be too much for the "corvette buyer" to be interested in. Seriously. I mean Mercedes put out into test markets that they were going to replace the Cummins with a Mercedes Diesel, and the response was so amazingly horrible it was never talked about again. Everyone knows Mercedes makes a good diesel and hell they are in Freightliners but if your buyers won't buy... you've got nothing to sell. Corvettes have been growing on me, but I just don't think a car like that would fly with enthusiasts. The 3.6L DOHC is good motor with good power, so applying that tech and engineering with more cylinder and more turbos would be a GOOD motor if people would buy it.

With all the VNT/VGT technology out there I wouldn't be too worried about off boost power, you won't spend much time out of the boost.

A motor like that would be better suited for a Fiero/Solstice/Sky something small production "sports" car (don't worry, I know none of those are coming back lol). I just don't see Corvette people liking the idea.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Corvettes have a lot of chassis tech. I've heard of a budget vs. weight rule for C5 and/or C6 development that equated pounds to production cost. IE, the designers would be allowed to spend more on a part if they could make it lighter... something like $10 per pound.

Also, the Corvette has one hell of an engine partly because GM can amortize the development costs of that engine across half their product line. A Corvette-specific engine would certainly not have the same economics; I'm not sure it would be viable, especially something technologically intensive like a high RPM turbo V8.

Of course it would be just like GM... cancel development of a 5 litre DI DOHC V8 for Caddy, then develop another one for the Corvette.

[Atilla the Fun]

I thought the next 'vette was getting a DI 5.5L w/ AFM and VVT?
Of all the 'vettes ever, the only one I could drive with zero mods would be a '95 Z51 convertible, in purple, with the optional removable hardtop, and the ZF. But I'd want the old Kaminari body kit.
Put an LS2 in it, replace the ZF with a TR6060, there's my idea of the perfect '13 vette.

[Indy]

Will, that's true about the $10/pound rule. The very interesting part is that the Northstar was being developed for a potential Corvette application. The LS program happened to get jump started, and made it into production *just* in time to be used in the 'Vette. The C5's were in fact packaged to be Northstar compatible, in case the LS1 dev program wasn't finished yet. I was lucky enough to get to speak to David Hill for a while, got some cool stories.

10 years ago the average Corvette owner was nearly 60 years old, I'd guess that age has gone down. I think that if GM was going to push new tech over, now would be the time to do it. The "no replacement" crowd is getting smaller and smaller. GM has always wanted to push more tech into the Corvette line to maintain appearance of competition with the Italians. If they can make it sell, they'll do it in a heartbeat.

[Emc209i]

Corvettes were always a cheap chassis strapped to a big ass motor.

That's actually what the Dodge Viper is - the C5 and C6 Vette's are light years ahead and sport very highly tuned chassis. I know you love the SL platforms, and I've been doing my research on them since you last brought them up. From what I've gathered, both the SL and Corvette have run toe to toe in the last 20 years, although one's been marketed as a high tech sports car and the other as GM's muscle car figurehead respectively. I think the real difference (and I know you've acknowledged this also) comes down to clientele and style of pussy you're filling the passenger seat with. I can appreciate both - sometimes picking up a southern blond isn't a bad thing (although most of the time it is). The Vette's primitiveness also appeals to something in me. But then again the SL has a saddle interior and boasts class. I'll take one of each.

[The Dark Side of Will]

At 4000 lbs for the SL and 3100 for the Vette, it's obvious which one is more sport and which one is more luxury.

The real laugh was that GM positioned the Caddy XLR against the SL, when it should have had a stick and gone up against the Aston V8.

[CincinnatiFiero]

Corvettes were always a cheap chassis strapped to a big ass motor.

I think the real difference (and I know you've acknowledged this also) comes down to clientele and style of pussy you're filling the passenger seat with. I can appreciate both - sometimes picking up a southern blond isn't a bad thing (although most of the time it is). The Vette's primitiveness also appeals to something in me. But then again the SL has a saddle interior and boasts class. I'll take one of each.

Well put.

Both are V8, 2 seat, roadsters, the SL is more money because you're paying for more leather, more trim, paint, etc, its mostly creature comforts that make up the $30k price gap, but the clientele who would buy a new SL550 appreciates and is willing to pay for that stuff. Corvette clientele is bang for buck, new Mercedes buyers aren't they are buying fit and finish and a badge. Stuff like the SL63 and SL65/600 is a totally different conversation.

I autocrossed a C5 fixed roof coupe for a day, and a friend has an LS3 C6. I concede, I am coming around, just don't tell people lol. After I sell my SL I am considering picking up a C5 convertible. Its a very different animal than a vintage SL, but I've seen some C5 verts down around $10-12k at the auctions, and my dad is thinking about buying a later R107 380SL for himself, so if there is one at his house, I may not need mine and a C5 is a lot of fun for the money. A C4 vert is even cheaper, but I don't think I want to go that old on a Corvette without going all the way back to like '71 or earlier.

[CincinnatiFiero]

At 4000 lbs for the SL and 3100 for the Vette, it's obvious which one is more sport and which one is more luxury.

The real laugh was that GM positioned the Caddy XLR against the SL, when it should have had a stick and gone up against the Aston V8.

You mean when they took a corvette, put a less powerful motor in it and doubled the price, that was a laugh too. It wasn't well built enough to beat an SL, and it wasn't sexy enough to take on an Aston.

[The Dark Side of Will]

At 4000 lbs for the SL and 3100 for the Vette, it's obvious which one is more sport and which one is more luxury.

The real laugh was that GM positioned the Caddy XLR against the SL, when it should have had a stick and gone up against the Aston V8.

You mean when they took a corvette, put a less powerful motor in it and doubled the price, that was a laugh too. It wasn't well built enough to beat an SL, and it wasn't sexy enough to take on an Aston.

Being based on the C6 chassis, the XLR is a LOT lighter than an SL. Even with the Northstar being heavier than the LS1 and all the Caddy crap it was saddled with, it was still "only" ~3400 lbs.

The SL being as heavy as it is means that it can have larger, heavier wheels and tires--and put a lot more rubber to the road--while keeping a sprung/unsprung weight ratio that's acceptable for luxury ride quality.
In order to ride like the SL, the XLR has to have MUCH smaller wheels and tires... it had *TINY* tires (235/50-18's) compared to the Vette and the SL. It was grossly handicapped in this regard.

With a T56, a hotter state of tune and serious rubber, it would have been an Aston competitor. IE, if it had been seriously developed. It clearly wasn't.
Beauty is only skin deep and the plastic panel styling could have been updated just as easily as it was for the Fiero.

[CincinnatiFiero]

Will I never made the claim that SL's were light.

Have you been in an Aston Martin? Even with a T56 and the supercharged motor anything GM lacks the fit and finish of an Aston Martin. It all feels so CTS, which in turn is so Trailblazer. The argument for the Corvette over the SL550 is you trade fit and finish for 40% off the price of the car. However the XLR was so much more expensive than a Corvette, and with more power and more expensive trans, and hotter this hotter that, you're well north of $100k and people are going to demand Aston Martin and Mercedes build quality because that's the same money they can get the comparable import for, and GM has NEVER been able to deliver interior, or exterior build quality rivaling BMW, Mercedes, Aston, Ferrari, etc. And I know the counter argument would be the quality Ferraris and Astons from the 80s, but compare them to the same yeared C4, and it levels back out. A 6speed 469HP supercharged XLR-V would have been a lot of fun, but considering what they want for ZR1s, they'd demand $150,000 for an XLR-V "supercar" and it simply wouldn't be worth it.

GM needs to stick to bang for your buck cars because they can't deliver super-luxury cars.

IMO Corvettes are a good value at $49,000, XLRs weren't at $70,000.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I never said you said the SL was light... heavy is part of what makes it ride well, as I implied.

I'm not talking about supercharged, either...

But yeah... everything GM builds bears the scars of the claws of the penny pinchers and bean counters. Penny wise, pound foolish.

[Atilla the Fun]

Well, Ford hater that I am, it's difficult for me to admit the fact that their 3.5L Eco-Boost in the F150 is doing okay. So I have no problems with rumors of a turbo DI 3.6L for the next 'vette, as long as we get a turbo DI 5.5L V8 option. Plus the 'maro would surely get the turbo 3.6 as well.
And with the 5.5 on the way, that makes the '12 ZL1 'maro even more amazing, and short-lived. It'll probably be the ultimate 'maro ever.
But will the 'vette get inboard rear brakes? That's long overdue. In theory, they're harder to service, but since new-'vette racing is still a going thing, they'd surely have quick-change pads.